Introduction - new owner in NC

[Dominic Germana]

Hello everyone!  About a week ago I bought a 1975 2002 which will be a rolling project.  Since then I've been devouring content from this site - you guys are amazing!  I would like to introduce myself, and I'm looking forward to meeting many of you in person someday.  I have a few questions now and I'm sure I'll have many more in the future.

 

My name is Dominic and I live in Durham, NC.  I'm an engineer and I love learning about and building new things.  I've been a BMWCCA member for about 18 years and I have attended The Vintage for most of the last 8 years (where hopefully I will make more face-to-face 02 owner connections in the future).  I have always admired the 02 and I'm so excited to finally own one.  I want to give a huge thank you to my friend Dan Rosado in Raleigh who took me out for a really fun ride in his 02 as I was contemplating my purchase. The ride confirmed that, yes, 2002s really do live up to high expectations for driving fun!  My folks moved from NH down to NC after my 8 year old twin boys were born, so my car-guy dad and hopefully my sons will be helping a lot with the project and enjoying rides to events as well.

 

Here's a photo of my new car.  My plan is not to fully strip it down and restore it (I've been down that long road before), but to refurbish the mechanicals, spruce up the interior, and let it be a decent looking, really great driving car.  The 02 will be replacing a 1968 Mustang that I purchased in high school, drove for a couple years, and then tore down in 2002 for a complete restoration.  I replaced almost all the sheet metal on that car, top and bottom (it was a very rusty NH car) before I moved down to NC, but once I got down here I became more involved in track events with the BMW club and the Mustang was mostly ignored, so it's still in primer.  Whenever I do work on the Mustang these days, I'm always wishing that I was working on a 2002 instead, so now I'll finally be putting my efforts into the right car!

 

As for my first couple of questions, I would love some interior and engine info.  The rear seat in my car doesn't seem to fit into place.  The rear corners of the bottom cushion run into the seatbelt retractors, so the cushion can't be pushed all the way back and down.  The front edge sticks out several inches from the carpet bulkhead, and there's no mating features between the bulkhead and the seat as far as I can tell.  The upper cushion seems to be tool tall to fit all the way down into place on the hooks, and maybe too wide also.  I suspect that perhaps the rear seats came from an e21 since the upholstery matches the front seats, and both front and rear are a slightly lighter shade of tan vs the door panels. Can anyone confirm whether these are e21 seats?  I've read threads stating that e21s can sort of be made to fit, and that's the situation I seem to have. The rear seat upholstery also has 7 pleats per side vs. the 8 pleats that I think is correct for later 02s.  Here are some photos of the rear seats:

 

The more important issue is that the car idles pretty rough and doesn't run very smooth.  The car has a recently rebuilt distributor, new coil, plugs, plug wires, and fuel filter.  However, I think some of the vacuum connections look messed up.  The car is a 1975, but it appears to have had all the smog stuff (EGR, air pump, etc) removed.  The distributor is part number 0 231 176 084, which has both vacuum advance and vacuum retard connections.  I have inserted some photos below showing the engine compartment with closeups on a few of the connections that I'm concerned about. 

1) First, there's a vacuum line connected from the side of the carb (Weber 32/36 DGAV) facing towards the rear of the car (near label "26") which connects to the vacuum portion of the distributor that is furthest away from the distributor body (I haven't checked yet to determine which side is advance vs retard).  This seems strange because I haven't seen anybody recommend connecting a vacuum line to the rear-facing side of the carburetor in the threads I've been reading through. 

2) The port on the vacuum mechanism that is closest to the distributor body is connected with a vacuum line that tees in to intake manifold #1, towards the front of the car, shared with a vacuum line that goes to the fuel return valve.  This seems like it might be a correct connection, assuming that is the vacuum advance port to the distributor, but I'm not sure.

3) A really weird connection that I'm concerned about is a red vacuum line that connects to the manifold just underneath the carb, which then goes over and is inserted into the valve cover breather hose...

4) There are two carburetor ports just above that red vacuum line connection (on the passenger face of the carb, below the water choke) which are capped off.

 

Based on this post (https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/67452-weber-3236-smog-legal-vacuum-diagrams/?do=findComment&comment=465166) I'm planning to cap off the manifold port that currently has the red hose attached, seal off the hole in the valve cover breather hose, connect the vacuum advance to the fuel return T hose, cap off the #26 port at the carb, and leave the vacuum retard port open at the distributor.  Does that sound right?  I will also check the points and the spark plug gaps and set the timing.  I'm hoping that these changes will dramatically improve the running condition of the engine.

 

Well, I think that's enough for tonight.  Thank you for all your help and the incredible wealth of information on this site!

 

Dominic

[Conserv]

Welcome, Dominic!

 

That doesn’t look like an ‘02 seat to me.  Here is the rear seat from my ‘76.  The ‘75 and ‘76 front and rear seats are identical. Your rear seat, whatever it is from, appears to have been recovered.

 

In my fourth photo below, you may note there is a drilled and tapped “tab” that extends down (up in my photo) from the leading edge of the seat bottom. This tab inserts into a slot in the small floor bulkhead under the leading edge of the seat, just right of center, and a 10mm bolt holds the tab to the bulkhead.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Conserv

[resra]

Hey man, welcome to the party! Great looking car.

[ray_]

My understanding is that the fuel filter should be a canister, and between the carb and the fuel pump. Your filter has no initial hose clamp and it's possible the pump is pulling air because of that. Check the fuel line at the tank pickup also. Hal will give you a piece of (not teflon) tube if you ask ? (do a search).

 

Welcome!

Edited August 31, 2018 by ray_
tom

[Ncbimma]

Welcome! Tii in Raleigh here!

Edited August 31, 2018 by Ncbimma

[joebarthlow]

welcome!

[worzella]

Hi Dominic. Randy here from Raleigh. Engineer?  Work out in RTP maybe?

 

Anyway I have a ‘75 that has just gotten on the road this spring after 9 yr resto. Runs pretty well and I would be glad to meet up for some comparison

 

I am no expert but have tons of notes and learned ALOT along the way

 

I think I met Dan at a car show a few weeks ago but he had his other car at this show so have not met the 02 yet

 

Randy

[AustrianVespaGuy]

Those certainly look just like the E21 rear seats that I have in my car.  So yes they should fit, but it's true that the seat back is tight and a bit difficult to get all the way down.  Just make sure it's over the upper clips and then screw in the bottom brackets to the floor, albeit probably in slightly different locations than where the 2002 screwed into.  The bottom seat should have some springy clips on the lower leading edge that clip into the lip of the kick panel, but I'm worried that I can't seem to see those in your picture, so if they're absent, the bottom might not work very well. . .

 

For the engine bay stuff, my first recommendation for any 2002 is to remove every bit of the smog junk to clean up the engine bay and not confuse yourself later.  Basically anything along the firewall that doesn't go to either the carb or to the distributor/coil can be removed.  As for the vacuum lines, I don't see why the fuel return valve NEEDS vacuum but it's certainly fine to leave that on, the vacuum advance you do want, and of course the big vacuum hose to the brake booster, but I think that's it.  Everything else can go and get capped off. Lastly rebuild the carb and replace that fuel filter, and I'll bet that'll at least get her running decently!

 

Oh, and since you have those twins, I recommend you get in touch with @bluedevils here on the FAQ (also in NC, by the way) and have him help get you set up with some proper 3-point shoulder belts for the rear seats so that they can ride along with you in the Appalachian twisties too!

[NYTransplant]

Welcome Dominic!  I'm a newbie also, and am in the Charlotte area.  I've only had my 2002 since mid-July and am having a great time working on it!  Funny, I was in RTP on Wednesday, and I was wondering how many 2002's might be in that area.  

 

Nice garage & E30 BTW.

 

Tim

[Mike Self]

13 hours ago, ray_ said:

My understanding is that the fuel filter should be a canister, and between the carb and the fuel pump.

It's actually better to put the fuel filter upstream from the pump, to prevent crap from getting into the pump as well as the carb.  Just place the filter so it doesn't touch the cylinder head or manifold to prevent vapor lock.  Clamp all those hoses, and any you find with woven cloth covers, (including back by the gas tank) pitch 'em and replace with US style rubber fuel hose.  Unbeknownst to you, those old hoses can crack underneath the cloth and leak both air and fuel, neither of which is a Good Thing.

 

And welcome to the 02 fraternity/sorority.  I was just in Durham on Sunday (ate at the Page Grill) on our way home from the Outer Banks.  Great place to live--went to school there a half century or so ago...

 

mike

Edited August 31, 2018 by mike

['76mintgrün'02]

Definitely remove the red tube.  That is essentially a vacuum leak.

 

I run the distributor's advance pod off of the ported vacuum nipple at the base of the carb on the passenger's side (above the one with the red tube connected) and cap all the rest of them, as suggested.

 

I am not sure what the diverter needs for a vacuum source, but have read a bit about it in the archives.  My car did not come with one, but I believe they are helpful, in that they allow the pressure to bleed back to the tank when the engine is shut off.  Member John76 has offered a lot of good information on the topic, since his car retains the emissions package.

 

To clarify, the dual pod on your distributor has advance on the front and retard on the back.  +1 for using advance and leaving the retard nipple open.

 

Nice photos.  Keep them coming!  Welcome : )

Tom

[Mark92131]

Welcome Dominic.  Having desmogged a number of 75's in CA, I put together a list of things to remove/consider to completely remove these components.  You may find it useful as you get this sorted out.  One thing I did notice from your pictures above was the red manifold vacuum line at the base of your carb was plumbed to your valve cover breather hose.  I would cap this one and uncap the vacuum connection above it on the carb and use it to run a vacuum line to the advance side of your distributor pod, and cap the retard side.  Here's that list...

 

Smog removal

 

1. Buy a used early exhaust manifold, (no emission ports), or a Tii manifold or a non-thermal reactor manifold and plug the emission ports, or headers, or the IE Shorty Header.

2. Pull the Thermal reactor (smog manifold) off, 8 nuts, plus the bracket to the passenger-side engine mount, disconnect the hoses to the EGR filter (rear) and Check valve (front), toss in neighbors pool, (actually someone may need it because they crack).

3. Remove your alternator and battery, you will need clearance for the EGR filter and smog pump.

4. Unbolt the EGR filter from the intake manifold (2 bolts), remove the hoses (one is connected to the intake manifold, the other to the divertor), and vacuum lines from the EGR Valve.  Slide the EGR Valve and filter into the space vacated by the alternator to remove.

5. Buy the EGR blocking plate on the FAQ store, to plug the hole in the intake manifold (or use one of those rubber expanding plugs)

6. Remove the Dashpot for the Solex carb from the intake manifold, if it is still there, if you have a Weber carb, it is probably gone

7. Remove the T1 Temperature switch between 3 & 4 on the intake manifold (keep, they are expensive)

8. Remove the Diverter Valve (between the EGR Valve and the Pump), 3 hoses and bracket

9. Remove the Air pump, belt, and mounting brackets, (under the battery tray), it takes some wiggling to get it past the sway bar.

10. Replace the Alternator and battery (leave battery disconnected for now)

11. Remove all the smog components attached to the firewall (3 electro-magnetic valves (red, white, black), 2 relays, (speed & choke), the Control valve (round with 3 vacuum lines), the EGR Relay (looks like an aluminum cigarette pack).

12. Plug the 3 open ports on the intake manifold from unplugging the smog stuff.

13. Run a single vacuum line from the carb port above the port on the intake manifold, (passenger side of the carb) to the advance port on the distributor, plug the retard port on the distributor, (underneath).

14. If you have an electric choke or idle jet shut-off circuit, it might be powered off of the emission wiring harness (blue sheath wire bundle connecting all the firewall smog components), you'll need to power those things separately to remove the smogharness (run wires off the + side of the coil)

15. To remove the smog harness, trace the blue sheath wire bundle to the fuse box, remove the screw for the fuse box and pull it up, there should be two wires connected, disconnect both of them.  The push-on connection at fuse #12 should be used to connect to the + side of the coil.  If you have a coil with an internal resistor (blue, aftermarket) run a straight wire from fuse #12 to the + side of the coil, if you have the original black coil or red, you need to harvest the resistor wire from the smog harness (still connected to the coil), or use the older external style resistor that mounts on the firewall.  Either way, trace the smog wiring harness back to the coil and remove it completely.  If you need to harvest the resistor wire on the + side of the coil connection, peel back the blue sheath to expose the clear resistor wire and remove it and then splice it into your new wire running back to the fuse box.  The only thing connected to the coil will be the wires from the distributor to the - side of the coil and your new wire from the fuse box #12 to the + side of the coil.  If you have Pertronix, those wires will also be present.

16. Reconnect the battery and start the car

17, Set the dwell and timing

18. Reset the carb to best idle using the idle jet screw, set the idle speed and enjoy.

 

Good luck,

 

Have fun,

 

 

Mark92131

[Dominic Germana]

Thank you for the warm welcome everyone!

 

19 hours ago, Conserv said:

That doesn’t look like an ‘02 seat to me.  Here is the rear seat from my ‘76.  The ‘75 and ‘76 front and rear seats are identical. Your rear seat, whatever it is from, appears to have been recovered.

1

Thank you so much Steve!  The photos were super helpful in confirming that my seats are definitely not 02 seats, and to show how real 02 seats are supposed to be mounted.  If anyone has a lead on 02 rear seats I would love to pick up a set.

 

12 hours ago, worzella said:

Hi Dominic. Randy here from Raleigh. Engineer?  Work out in RTP maybe?

 

Anyway I have a ‘75 that has just gotten on the road this spring after 9 yr resto. Runs pretty well and I would be glad to meet up for some comparison

 

I am no expert but have tons of notes and learned ALOT along the way

 

I think I met Dan at a car show a few weeks ago but he had his other car at this show so have not met the 02 yet

 

Randy

2

Hey Randy, I would love to get together sometime.  Where in Raleigh are you located?  I'm in southern Durham, pretty close to Southpoint.  Dan lives in North Raleigh and he has a beautiful e30 convertible that he may have been driving when you met him.  I do often work with clients in RTP, but mostly I get to work at home.  I started a product development consultancy called Impact Embedded about 6 years ago and I help startups and other companies create new devices by developing custom circuit boards, software applications, etc.

 

8 hours ago, AustrianVespaGuy said:

Those certainly look just like the E21 rear seats that I have in my car.  So yes they should fit, but it's true that the seat back is tight and a bit difficult to get all the way down.  Just make sure it's over the upper clips and then screw in the bottom brackets to the floor, albeit probably in slightly different locations than where the 2002 screwed into.  The bottom seat should have some springy clips on the lower leading edge that clip into the lip of the kick panel, but I'm worried that I can't seem to see those in your picture, so if they're absent, the bottom might not work very well. . .

 

Oh, and since you have those twins, I recommend you get in touch with @bluedevils here on the FAQ (also in NC, by the way) and have him help get you set up with some proper 3-point shoulder belts for the rear seats so that they can ride along with you in the Appalachian twisties too!

1

I would love to see some photos of your E21 seats mounted in your car.  I am indeed planning to install 3-point belts in the rear, so today I removed the stock lap belt retractors.  With those out of the way, the rear seat bottom actually fits quite nicely, but unfortunately, it's evident that somebody ground off the clips that you mentioned.  Also, the upper section of the seat still seems way too tall and a little wide.  I can jam it back into position above the seat bottom where it fits pretty snugly, but I can't get it low enough to slide onto the seat-back clips unless the seat bottom is removed...

 

5 hours ago, NYTransplant said:

Nice garage & E30 BTW.

 

Tim

 

Thanks Tim!  I've put a lot of work into my garage and it has shaped up to be a pretty sweet place to work on the cars.  It's just a 2 car garage, but I can now fit 4 cars.  I installed the 2-post Mohawk lift about 8 years ago and the 4-post Bendpak is a new addition as of a couple months ago.  It's so convenient to be able to just drive on and raise the car.  I've had my e30 M3 for 12 years - thankfully I picked it up before the pricing went crazy!  It is such a fun car on the track.  I'll be instructing with Tarheel Chapter at VIR at the end of September if anyone wants to come up and ride along! 

 

4 hours ago, mike said:

It's actually better to put the fuel filter upstream from the pump, to prevent crap from getting into the pump as well as the carb.  Just place the filter so it doesn't touch the cylinder head or manifold to prevent vapor lock.  Clamp all those hoses, and any you find with woven cloth covers, (including back by the gas tank) pitch 'em and replace with US style rubber fuel hose.  Unbeknownst to you, those old hoses can crack underneath the cloth and leak both air and fuel, neither of which is a Good Thing.

 

And welcome to the 02 fraternity/sorority.  I was just in Durham on Sunday (ate at the Page Grill) on our way home from the Outer Banks.  Great place to live--went to school there a half century or so ago...

 

mike

Thanks so much for chiming in Mike.  I was wondering what to do about those cloth-covered hoses, thanks for the encouragement to replace them! I've met you a few times at The Vintage and Ofest (assuming this is Mike Self) and always admired your 02 enthusiasm.  Feel free to drop a line next time you're in town to visit the alma mater!

 

4 hours ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

Definitely remove the red tube.  That is essentially a vacuum leak.

 

I run the distributor's advance pod off of the ported vacuum nipple at the base of the carb on the passenger's side (above the one with the red tube connected) and cap all the rest of them, as suggested.

 

I am not sure what the diverter needs for a vacuum source, but have read a bit about it in the archives.  My car did not come with one, but I believe they are helpful, in that they allow the pressure to bleed back to the tank when the engine is shut off.  Member John76 has offered a lot of good information on the topic, since his car retains the emissions package.

 

To clarify, the dual pod on your distributor has advance on the front and retard on the back.  +1 for using advance and leaving the retard nipple open.

 

Nice photos.  Keep them coming!  Welcome : )

Tom

3

 

I couldn't imagine why someone would introduce a vacuum leak by connecting the red hose that way.  I figured you guys would let me know if there was some 02 magic that made a connection like that a good idea.  I'll definitely cap it and seal the hole in the vent hose.  In terms of ported vs manifold vacuum, reading this post made me think it would be better to use manifold vacuum for distributor advance, but perhaps the stock distributor is set up to use only ported vacuum...?  I think you're saying that the port on the dual pod facing the distributor body is for advance, and the hose the plugs in from the bottom is for retard, but I can double check my understanding by watching the rotor spin while sucking on the hoses I suppose.

 

 

4 hours ago, Mark92131 said:

Welcome Dominic.  Having desmogged a number of 75's in CA, I put together a list of things to remove/consider to completely remove these components.  You may find it useful as you get this sorted out.  One thing I did notice from your pictures above was the red manifold vacuum line at the base of your carb was plumbed to your valve cover breather hose.  I would cap this one and uncap the vacuum connection above it on the carb and use it to run a vacuum line to the advance side of your distributor pod, and cap the retard side.  Here's that list...

2

Thank you very much for the detailed list Mark!  I'll go through and make sure everything has been completed.  A lot of the smog stuff has been taken out already, but there's definitely still at least some wiring remaining.  From your list, it sounds like the fuel return valve was smog related and isn't beneficial?

 

Thank you all again so much!

 

Dominic

['76mintgrün'02]

46 minutes ago, Dominic Germana said:

In terms of ported vs manifold vacuum, reading this post made me think it would be better to use manifold vacuum for distributor advance, but perhaps the stock distributor is set up to use only ported vacuum...?  I think you're saying that the port on the dual pod facing the distributor body is for advance, and the hose the plugs in from the bottom is for retard, but I can double check my understanding by watching the rotor spin while sucking on the hoses I suppose.

 

The pod nipple pointing back towards the distributor is RETARD and the other is ADVANCE.  The distributor rotates clockwise, so pulling the points plate counter clockwise will advance the spark.

 

Yeah, the ported vs manifold vacuum source is a fun one.  That old Chevy article confused me too.  It's been around for years.  Basically, the question is whether you want to see full vacuum advance at idle.  I don't.  

 

Someone referred to this link this morning and it brushes over the topic.

https://www.racetep.com/manufacturer/carbs-and-injection/weber/electric-fuel-pumps.html

 

Here is the quote I am referring to -

 

"DO NOT hookup the distributor vacuum advance to the intake Manifold. That does not work and is a common mistake we see. If you do that you will pull full advance at idle then as soon as you open the throttle it loose vacuum and the timing will retard quickly causing a big stumble or flat spot and very bad throttle response."

 

 

[Dominic Germana]

Thanks for the link Tom! That website has so many tempting goodies for sale!