Sway bars and strut brace

[KFunk]

However, I would argue about the usefulness of a rear sway bar.  Yeah, a big front sway can tighten up handling quite a bit.  But, a big rear sway can increase wheel spin quite a bit on a tight autocross track, even with an E21 LSD.  I removed my big rear sway completely like 10 years ago, and I could get a lot more power to the ground in turns and got a lot better times.  I picked up a stock rear sway I'd like to try some time, but haven't gotten around to it.  

[Senna27]

2 hours ago, visionaut said:

Front strut tower braces work. And adding a front strut tower brace made a big handling performance difference for me, and how I drive my 02.

As an engineer I know how and why they work - in fact and theory. I haven’t seen any evidence that debunks the working of a front strut tower brace, here or elsewhere.

 

Tom

 

Have to agree with you Tom. Over the years I installed Koni shocks, Eibach springs (cut), turbo front bar, Dinan adjustable rear bar, urethane bushings, adjustable camber plates and Bridgestone RE-71R tires. The last thing was an Ireland strut bar. I immediately noticed the difference on the street. Night and day on the track.

 

Not to mention it's stopped the little cracks where the nose meets the fenders. May have even prevented them had I installed the strut bar sooner.

 

The key to a front bar is it's got to go straight across to be effective.

 

Rear strut bar is not necessary. 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by Senna27

[AceAndrew]

Front/Rear swaybar setup really really just depends on the situation.  

 

You are, of course, spot on regarding an autocross setup and tight turn-in.  Conversely, if setting up for drifting/ice racing the bigger rear bar (set stiff) is a great way to get that tail to slide out controllably.

 

For my street/canyon setup I liked the IE front set at the loosest option, and the rear also set up with the clamps further to the end (looser).

 

----------------

 

In regards to the strut brace and swaybars, bear in mind that with the IE sway-bars relocating the pivot bushings directly underneath the subframe you are reducing flex at the nose.  Stock/ST-routed swaybars put the pivot bushings up at the tip of the front subframe which introduces a bit of extra flex.

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by AceAndrew

[TobyB]

http://www.e30sport.net/myths/Strutbar_Theory/strut_bar_theory.htm

 

As far as I know, no- one's put instrumentation on a 2002 to see how much the strut tops move.

Given the leverage ratios and angles involved, forces are in the #100 lb range, in/out.

 

As to anti- sway bars, spring rate far trumps (sorry)  any roll bar rate.  However, if your

spring rates are close, the choice of bars front/rear can really affect the balance of the car,

for good or ill.

E30 rear sway bars usually tending towards ill.

 

t

[NYNick]

4 hours ago, '76mintgrun'02 said:

I'll be the tie breaker and side with Simeon.

I put one on when I got the car and later took it off, in favor of a stock air cleaner.

I could not feel any difference either way.

 

The ST sways that I installed made a HUGE difference though.

Removing the originals, I learned that they'd fused to the rubber pivots; so it seems they were not really working the way they should've.  That may have explained part of the improvement.

 

I can see a brace being helpful on a racEcar, with stiff springs and bushings and things... where they're lifting the inner front wheel off the ground in the corners.  Or possibly on a car that has been flogged over the years and had the stiffness beaten out of it.

 

Perhaps you could rig a way to measure whether you are getting flex between the strut tops...

I tried and did not see any.

I'm installing these ST bars as we speak. Do you remember what the Torque spec is on the rear end links. 18?

4 hours ago, '76mintgrun'02 said:

 

 

['76mintgrün'02]

1 hour ago, TobyB said:

As far as I know, no- one's put instrumentation on a 2002 to see how much the strut tops move.

Ajhem

 

 

4 minutes ago, NYNick said:

Do you remember what the Torque spec is on the rear end links. 18?

 

Good and snug, iirc.

[TobyB]

Which axis is measuring time in that rig, Tom?

 

heh

 

t

 

[Son of Marty]

As the late great Stephen Hawking would have said time is anything but a constant what is the gravity field at the time of measure.

 

RIP Stephen, a mind well beyond it's time.

[Son of Marty]

Tom that's a very clever set up, perhaps you might consider a slip joint between the 2 half's to remove any unintentional bracing. 

[DaHose]

That clever little rig looks made from bamboo, paper, pencil, and threaded rod(?), and I do believe that is a slip joint. 

 

Jose

[jp5Touring]

Curious as to how the bamboo is mounted at the shock tower ?

[Schnellvintage]

One last thought, in order for the suspension, stock or otherwise, to perform at its best, all points mounting chassis (unibody) must not move independantly when acted upon by the road/track.  The design of the IE stress/strut bar definitely makes the front upper chassis stiffer at the strut mounts.  Just as polyurethane reduces (stiffens) deflection, at the pivot point upon loading the suspension. 

Matt

  

Edited March 15, 2018 by Schnellvintage
additional info

[AustrianVespaGuy]

I absolutely LOVE the sun visor clips for holding the pencils, that's 2002 owner ingenuity to a T right there!

And FYI, just placed my order with IE for the stabilizer bar kit! Might still do the front brace later, but will wait on that for now.

['76mintgrün'02]

2 hours ago, jp5Touring said:

Curious as to how the bamboo is mounted at the shock tower ?

 

I doubled up the wall thickness

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The double pencil model has a loose fitting spring between the two bamboo pieces, to let the halves move independently.

 

I sold the strut brace, so I would have to devise a different setup to test again.

[yeewiz]

what were the test results from that setup?