steering and suspension Does size really matter?

[squiggelsworth]

Greetings Sirs and Sirettes!   My 73 2002 has stock rims but larger e21 size tires (185/80) I notice that the steering is very heavy when turning even at higher speeds. Its heavy compared to my already heavy, non-power assisted E21. I'm wondering if these thicker tires affect the steering? Or maybe 2002's are like that...  

 

Also, my rims are black, but I notice many are silver/gray. Did some come in black from the factory?

 

Thanks!  

[zinz]

What air pressure are you running?

[Mark92131]

No black rims from the factory...

 

Mark92131

[M3M3]

many causes of heavy steering...

large tire size

low tire pressure

small steering wheel diameter

bad or incorrectly assembled upper strut bearings

incorrect alignment

poor condition of tie rids, ball joints, track rods

steering box type/condition

weak upper body..;-)

going too slow.....;-)

 

so, yes. the wrong size tires is a factor, but there are so many others....

 

 

PS - those are 185/70 tires, not 185/80.

Edited November 10, 2016 by mlytle

[conkitchen]

Guessing a "heavy steering" feel is partially coming from being used to modern cars with power steering and handling.  BTW that vibration and rolling resistance sensation is the road.

 

But what do I know 

[Glen Karr]

after letting Tii set for 10 years I got it running again.  First thing I noticed was the heavy steering.  When younger I put on 12" diameter steering wheel.  When I drove it Saturday I could barely turn it.  Got home and put the 16" bus wheel back on. No problem now.  I attributed heavy steering to loss of upper body and arm strength

[zinz]

Perhaps these guys could help out?

 

 

 

 

[jgerock]

Nika Avatar tires?  Where do companies come up with these names?

[squiggelsworth]

Might be low pressure. Possibly the tire size. Has stock steering wheel. I adjusted the steering box as it was very sloppy. It's still a little sloppy but much better. Just got it 2 weeks ago so still going through it. Thanks guys! 

Edited November 11, 2016 by squiggelsworth

[GazM3]

Big castor angles make steering heavy also.  Not sure on the exact angle but typically BMW's have lots if castor which helps keep the steering stable at high speed.  

[visionaut]

4 hours ago, mlytle said:

many causes of heavy steering...

large tire size

low tire pressure

small steering wheel diameter

bad or incorrectly assembled upper strut bearings

incorrect alignment

poor condition of tie rids, ball joints, track rods

steering box type/condition

weak upper body..;-)

going too slow.....;-)

 

so, yes. the wrong size tires is a factor, but there are so many others....

 

...you can also include grip/arm reach, the distance to the steering wheel  ;p

[Fatherof3]

Tell us the procedure you did for adjusting the steering box?

How does the steering feel with car on jack stands, front wheels hanging?

[Mike Self]

Couple of things...

 

stock size tires were 165/80x13; you actually have 185/70 tires, not 185/80.  The extra width alone can make the steering heavier, incorrect front end alignment and/or a too tightly adjusted steering box will also affect your steering effort.  So will steering wheel size.    

 

And from your picture you have the original 4 1/2 inch wide rims, which are a bit too narrow for a 185 tire to perform correctly. You really should have a minimum of a 5" wide rim for a 185 tire.  Those are, incidentally the OEM rims for your '73; the only roundies that came with 5" rims were tii's unless you bought the optional alloy wheels, which were 5".  

 

Interestingly, the steel wheels used on 2002s came from Lemmertz painted black; BMW painted the outsides silver, but left the back in its original black.  Same with the alloys--the back sides were left in grey primer, with only silver overspray showing through the holes in the center section.  

 

cheers

mike

[saaron]

A few things from experience...

If you are new to old cars with unassisted steering, really, that might be the extent of the "problem".  At low speeds, or at a standstill, it is extremely hard to turn the steering wheel.  You need to be rolling a bit to make it easier.  You learn that over time...if you are parking or something, you keep the car rolling a bit to make the steering easier.

 

Those tires, given the slight extra width vs. stock, will make the wheel harder to turn than the stock tire size Mike talks about.  I switched from the 165 to 185s and there was a difference.  Not a huge one, but I could feel it for sure.  

 

Also, if you tighten the screw on the steering box, it can yield the sensation that the steering is more difficult to manage.  If the steering doesn't come back to center after going around a turn, then the box is over-adjusted (over tightened).  There are lots of threads on here about adjusting the steering box you should take a look at.  If the steering felt "sloppy" it could be that there are other worn parts in the front steering assembly, and the box is OK, and you over-tightened the box, making the steering wheel harder to turn.  I adjusted the steering box on my car, and it did slightly increase the steering effort, and I adjusted it very little - a fraction of a turn of the adjustment screw.  If you really turned that screw a lot, you could have made the steering more difficult to manage, if that makes sense.  

 

A quick experiment would be to back out the steering box adjustment screw a bit and see if that starts to be better.  Also check the parts in the front suspension - the parts Marshall listed out.  Your "sloppiness" may be coming from a few sources up there.

 

Scott

[Gordon]

I have 15X7 ET 25 Centra wheels with 195/50-15 Yoko S drive tires on my tii. For a steering wheel, I alternate between a E21 sport (380mm) and Nardi classic (390mm) wheel that I both enjoy but prefer the E21 wheel for the feel. Not my car but I have the same Nardi wheel as in the below pic. I couldn't ever imagine going back to 13" tires on my tii. I haven't run 13" on my 02's since the early 80's.

 

G-Man