Engine lift process step

[Joesprocket]

Hi all, I'm down to the bellhousing bolts and engine mounts before lifting the engine (my first tbh) up up and away. I'd like to pull the motor without dropping the tranny—at least initially. Once I free the union between motor and tranny and pull the motor forward before lifting up, is the tranny going to want to slump without the support of being connected to the motor? It would seemingly rest on the center link so my thought would be to wedge a pice of wood or thick foam between the bottom of the trans and center link to give a sort of resting spot for the tranny until I can lower it. With the wheels straight there's roughly 2" overhang. Obv less if the wheels were to somehow turn which is a risk. I can't imagine the center link to deflect too much, right?

 

As you can see in the pic, without the fan and rad i have plenty of room to move the engine forward, freeing from tranny before lifting. When i do that, what should i expect the trans to do?

 

Thank you!

Joe

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Joesprocket

[Einspritz]

You have room in front to move the block forward, but not enough to clear the transmission input shaft with the clutch without lifting the engine front, which will then bind the input shaft within the clutch.

 

Now, you could pull the engine forward a bit to expose the clutch bolts and undo them freeing up the shaft.

 

But why?

 

We're talking time here, and it's not that much time to just remove the transmission (2 cross member and giubo bolts, shift rod, reverse switch wire) , 20 minutes tops, and it will also be easier to assemble.

 

Extra Extra credit for doing this with the hood in place!

[Einspritz]

And yet I remain part of the problem

[71bmr02]

I've done lots of engine removals, in the long run especially with manual tranmission cars, pulling engine and transmission is far better than leaving the trans in the car.  looking at the general condition of the engine i'll go out on a limb and say you'll want to take a look at the guibo, driveshaft, center support bearing trans mount, clutch slave cylinder etc.  all easier to do with engine transmission out.   also easier to move the car around all you need to do is tie up the driveshaft.  If you do decide to leave the trans with out support, it'lll fall dead on the floor or at least try to taking the shift platform, shifter, boot etc with it unless it's "tied up" of course you could put a floor jack under it but that makes it almost impossible to move the car around and these trannys have ridge on the bottom that makes them want to roll one way or the other unless properly supported..  the transmission can be tied up with strong wire or a ratchet strap to a piece of wood, 2x4 similar across  top of inner fenders, a bit cheesy but it works.  just remove the engine and tran as a unit and be done with it.  you'll thank yourself for it later.

[Joesprocket]

Roger copy all this. Ok so job 1 (if not pulling them as one unit) lower the trans THEN lift the motor. good note to tie the drive shaft up. I have some heavy gauge wire that will do this nicely.

 

And yeah, you don't have to go too far on that limb. all the things either need renewed or replaced in this old girl. Except the dash. the dash is great. Love my "no action required" dash.

 

thanks again! Will update the ol'blog when complete

 

 

[71bmr02]

not so much lower as partially separate to the point where you can "tie" the trans to a secure brace such as 2x4  (btw remove that plastic fuse cover and store in a safe place if you place a brace across that area it could lead to cracking the cover) separate the units by pulling motor forward then once clear of the tran input shaft lift from car. this is where you think youre clear but you still need to clear the clutch assembly from the tran input shaft, again much easier to do with both pieces out at same time

 

looking forward, youll likely end up installing a new clutch an pp a seemingly easy job except i have seen, on the odd occasion, where the clutch disc tool didnt exacly get things line up correctly  and that's a real b@#@%# when installing the engine to the trans still in the car.  you'll spend hours trying to get things to line up only to eventually discover its the alignment of the disc to the bearing in the back of the crank.  another job much easier done with both units out "on the floor"

[2002iii]

Another option is to unbolt the subframe from the body and lower it and/or raise the body. 

[jerryasi]

2002iii has my vote. Gonna want to clean and inspect that subframe anyway. 

 

[Stevenc22]

I also dropped my engine out the bottom with the subframe

[TobyB]

Can I suggest taking the driveshaft out completely?

 

It's far easier to unbolt from the diff if you at least break it loose while it's

still attached to the transmission,

and it'll need a new center support.  Plus, you'll want to check the condition

of the u- joints.  Which needs to be done out of the car.

 

While dropping the subframe's a fine way to go, if the ancillaries are off,

coming out the top is almost a rite of passage.

 

t

 

[Joesprocket]

2 minutes ago, TobyB said:

Can I suggest taking the driveshaft out completely?

 

 

 

I'm feeling this, too. Now that the exhaust/trans support bracket is off Haynes (along with several posts here) are saying to remove shift assembly THEN unbolt drive shaft from Guibo. It would be a lot easier to remove the drive shaft / guibo THEN attack the shifter assembly. Why not pull the entire drive shaft. It's all gotta go plus would be in the way of backing the trans away from the motor. OYE!

[71bmr02]

With toby, pulling out the top is a rite of passage, if youve never pulled an engine its a must have on your cv to pull an engine the conventional way ( i know, many new car mfg use the subframe pull method)  I have actually considered the approach of subframe pull and if i get around to working on the 70 i'll likely do that because it will need a lot of inspection, suspension parts replacement and cleanup which will be much easier with subframe "on the floor".   with regard to the driveshaft, you can pull the motor/trans leaving the driveshaft in place and can remove it later for inspection repair.     couple of downsides to subframe pull; 1  should be done in a shop, garage, carport etc with concrete floor otherwise you likely wont be able to move the unit from beneath the car.  2 it'll lilkely leave your car stranded in one place while you do the engine, tran other work (some kind of dolly under the body would allow the car to be moved)

[Mike Self]

12 hours ago, 71bmr02 said:

you'll want to take a look at the guibo, driveshaft, center support bearing trans mount, clutch slave cylinder etc. 

Given the mileage on your car, all those items will probably be original...and you have an early 02, so...

• It will have a guibo that has teardrop-shaped iron castings (vs the stamped metal of later guibos) that surround each bolt hole.  They're much more prone to separate from their rubber matrix than the later ones and thus the guibo should be replaced--it's probably already started to come apart.
• Center support bearing rubber is guaranteed to be disintegrated and ready for replacement
• tranny support mount:  guaranteed to be black goo...replace with a larger one from an E21 or Bavaria
• clutch slave cylinder--your early car has an adjustable slave cylinder pushrod (used up to VIN 1665200, and not in either the owners or shop manual) and the pedal linkage is similar to the mechanical linkage on 1600s.  There's a horseshoe link at the pedal end that wears and should be checked, and both slave and master cylinders should be replaced.  Much easier to extract the slave cylinder with the tranny out of the car...

PM me if you need a few tricks of the trade on the clutch pedal linkage and the clutch slave/mc replacement...

 

mike

[Son of Marty]

With the engine out besure to weld in the reinforced the drivers side sub frame engine mount.

[Joesprocket]

Progress report for anyone following:

Guibo and drive shaft are off the car. That should be a right of passage in and of itself - especially when one can accomplish without breaking a bolt. That damn guibo and the whole '4 bolts can come out while the other 4 push back to the trans' business is a real sonabitch. Things worked out when I freed up the center bearing where I found enough play to wriggle it free.

 

How bout this center support rubber bearing....😳

 

Engine is coming out through the top simply because i have a conveniently place i beam in the garage with a chain fall.

I'll lower the trans this weekend after I pull the shifter assembly. 

 

Appreciate everyone's input and POVs. This is good fun.