300 HP, How to Assemble Our Engines Engine Builders Chime In

[MitchaPaLoOza88]

19 minutes ago, markmac said:

They have an M12/13 F1 motor on racecars direct right now......hurry and get your check book out....it's EUR 185.000,00

 

BMW M12/13 for sale

 

Pointing out the obvious here. Its literally only the block used. At this point the Bravo is like the really hot distant cousin to the M10.

 

[evil02]

51 minutes ago, markmac said:

They have an M12/13 F1 motor on racecars direct right now......hurry and get your check book out....it's EUR 185.000,00

 

BMW M12/13 for sale

 

If they had two I would buy them but, just 1? why bother...

[Son of Marty]

Yeah 200k for a motor that's only going to be paraded around the track is a little steep for me (maybe after my mega millions hit tonight) but the big problem would be figuring out the fuel there was a video of a build of one of these motors and ran it at I believe Silverwood but BMW declined to name the fuel formula and what they were running didn't make the engine real happy.

[2002iii]

On 1/15/2021 at 1:05 PM, MitchaPaLoOza88 said:

 

Pointing out the obvious here. Its literally only the block used. At this point the Bravo is like the really hot distant cousin to the M10.

 

The block is a 2.0l block bored for 1.5l pistons so it has extra thick cylinder walls and the inside was smoothed and polished. That and the fact that they had to rebuild the motor after every race and had multiple motors on hand in case of the inevitable explosion.

 

They also only ran the 1300hp 5.5 Bar=80 Psi tune for qualifying, race tune was 850hp with 3.6 Bar=52 Psi in 1986. In 1987 boost was restricted to 4 Bar for qualifying and race so the only tune became 900hp 3.8 Bar=55psi. Turbos were banned in F1 in 1989.

 

Also you have to remember this is a dry sump motor with an extra wide angle 16v head itbs and a giant kkk turbocharger running race gas with probably a couple million dollars in tuning and research behind it back in the 80s.

Edited January 19, 2021 by 2002iii
Corrected mistakes

[gary32]

86 and 87 long time ago.

Benjamin is right today sophisticated motor controls can wring out previously unapproachable power levels.

Here's a 250cc 2 stoke that makes 80hp, maybe a tad peaky but crazy sound. Better bring some money.

 

[evil02]

2 hours ago, gary32 said:

 

Benjamin is right today sophisticated motor controls can wring out previously unapproachable power levels.

 

 

 

  The processor speeds, knock control and new fuels make tuning much easier to make power. Knowing how to tune helps too

[Benjamin A.R.]

On 1/16/2021 at 9:53 AM, evil02 said:

Knowing how to tune helps too

I have lots to learn in that department haha. But so far so good! Sounds like you have a pretty sweet build in the works, if you run MS I'll give you tunes. That goes for anyone that needs them. The 10psi tune on the stock '75 block is pretty dialed and I'll give it out free of charge.

[Benjamin A.R.]

@Dudeland Stroking an M10 is a waste of money in my opinion. An S14/aftermarket crank and rods would've cost more than my entire turbo setup including the ECU.

 

Boring is a great idea since forged pistons are on the shopping list already. Don't get too crazy though, because thin cylinder walls and high boost aren't best friends.

 

Don't worry about highjacking the thread man, I hope it turns into a knowledge dump.

[Benjamin A.R.]

@tzei WOW, thank you for sharing. That's an awesome sheet to look at, the torque curve is sick. It's interesting to me that you chose a 1.8. The US E30 1.8 blocks weigh about 30 pounds less than a 2.0 from a 2002, I've seen one crack because of this I think. Maybe yours is from an earlier car like an 1800 or a bored out 1600?

 

 The watercooled Holset is also interesting, what is the CHRA from? Every HY and HX I've ever seen is oil cooled only. Man they are hard to kill, I bet a watercooled one will last forever.

[Benjamin A.R.]

On 1/15/2021 at 3:37 PM, 2002iii said:

I believe the block is reinforced and closer to the s14 block.

 

Also you have to remember this is a dry sump motor with an extra wide angle 24v 

This is the first I've heard of this, do you have a source? According to everything I've read they were "seasoned" high mileage stock M10 blocks with the roughness from the casting process polished out on the inside. Are you thinking of a crank girdle?

 

And they should've been 16v heads unless I'm missing something...

[kbmb02]

37 minutes ago, Benjamin A.R. said:

The US E30 1.8 blocks weigh about 30 pounds less than a 2.0 from a 2002, I've seen one crack because of this I think.

 

I measured them once; if I recall correctly, the difference was more like 10 lbs (empty blocks). -KB

[2002iii]

18 minutes ago, Benjamin A.R. said:

This is the first I've heard of this, do you have a source? According to everything I've read they were "seasoned" high mileage stock M10 blocks with the roughness from the casting process polished out on the inside. Are you thinking of a crank girdle?

 

And they should've been 16v heads unless I'm missing something...

Sorry I was going off of memory, upon review of multiple articles I see that it was a 1.5l block that had extra thick cylinder walls because it was the same casting as the 2.0l block.

 

And yes it was a 16v head, I must have been thinking about the n55 in my 2012 535i I was buying parts for lol.

[Benjamin A.R.]

12 minutes ago, kbmb02 said:

 

I measured them once; if I recall correctly, the difference was more like 10 lbs (empty blocks). -KB

 

That's entirely possible, I was using a shitty bathroom scale. 

[tzei]

@Benjamin A.R. TY. I use 1.8L capacity as my racing class rules allows me to build lighter car (1001 kg). I use pre-77 blocks if i can, never E30 era blocks (and yes i have hoarded old blocks enough). I have seen E30 blocks broke (cracked from head bolt area) in normal use.

 

CHRA is from HY family i believe, not sure thou. I think both HY35 and HX35/40 can have w/c chra - they exists. I told turbo builder what i need it to be (perform) and this is what i've got. 

[xr4tic]

On 1/13/2021 at 7:26 PM, Dudeland said:

I am following this one closely as well.  I am not nearly as close as evil02, but is a stroker out of the question for a turbo build?

 

Certainly not out of the question.  Given the choice of bore or stroke to increase displacement, bore is better for turbo, but you can only go so far.

 

Read up on rod/stroke ratio, if you decide to go with a bigger stroke, be sure to cram in the longest rod you can.