300 HP, How to Assemble Our Engines Engine Builders Chime In

[evil02]

2 minutes ago, jk16vturbo said:

How much room did you have to make between the strut towers?  I will have a spare '76 rusty shell left over after the '75 is complete and  I figured on finding a wrecked M5 with a six speed and modifying the floor panels to fit since they need to be replaced anyway.  I think the stock suspension may need to go as well.  Any thoughts on an upgrade? 

 

This is with an E30 M3. No space needed to be made. The nose had to be removed to slide it in. I'm not sure if it would fit in the 2002, I can measure and let you know but, it would be the same thing, the nose would have to be removed. I suspect the v10 is a little too long.

[Dudeland]

17 hours ago, evil02 said:

 

As long as your compression ration is under say, 11:1, throw it on and run E85 or run pump and keep the timing low. It will spool up hard but too soon and BOOM!   

The ole 75 cali car has blessed me with about 8.25 or 8.5:1, so no worries there.  I am going be able to run e85, and something like high octane gas (here in Canada you can get 97), and perhaps meth/water injection to keep things cool if the intercooler isn't up to the task.   

 

The new setup will run dual knock sensors (bosch dual wire) as well as EGT sensors on all cylinders to give me some warning.  Hopefully all that works fast enough to save it from the bang. 

[evil02]

56 minutes ago, Dudeland said:

The ole 75 cali car has blessed me with about 8.25 or 8.5:1, so no worries there.  I am going be able to run e85, and something like high octane gas (here in Canada you can get 97), and perhaps meth/water injection to keep things cool if the intercooler isn't up to the task.   

 

The new setup will run dual knock sensors (bosch dual wire) as well as EGT sensors on all cylinders to give me some warning.  Hopefully all that works fast enough to save it from the bang. 

 

  With that low of compression, you can run a ton of boost! Can you do a piston swap or machine a little off the head?

 

 For boost, I like 9.5:1.  But, you can go a little higher on E85 if you watch your timing. E85 really keeps things cool too. On my N/A Small block Chevy, I ran 11:1 with no problem(on E85)

[jk16vturbo]

2 hours ago, evil02 said:

 

This is with an E30 M3. No space needed to be made. The nose had to be removed to slide it in. I'm not sure if it would fit in the 2002, I can measure and let you know but, it would be the same thing, the nose would have to be removed. I suspect the v10 is a little too long.

Oh no I want the twin turbo V8.  I think the V10 may be too big for the 2002 body but the V8 is like having a left and right side 4 cylinder. 

[evil02]

1 hour ago, jk16vturbo said:

Oh no I want the twin turbo V8.  I think the V10 may be too big for the 2002 body but the V8 is like having a left and right side 4 cylinder. 

 

The S63?  Killer torque but, no thank you. We had a X5M and it almost burnt to the ground. That "hot V" turbo setup cooked all the hoses and plastics. Every time you touch something it cracked. I parked outside work, coworker came in and asked why there was fluid all under my truck. Something relate to the turbo caught fire, burnt all the wiring and the coolant line burnt open and the coolant extinguished the fire!   Truck was a 2012. BMW did take it back and fixed it all. I sold it as fast as it could go zero to 60..

[TobyB]

Quote

200k mile M42, rammed 10psi into it,

Honestly, as an M42 is pretty much 2/3 of an M20 with 16 valves, I would bet that if you didn't

do anything impolite (detonate, etc) the thing would hold together pretty well.

They weren't as overbuilt as the M10, but under 1 bar, they're stout little (keyword, little) motors.

You can buzz the heck out of them, and as the valves are pretty well retained, they just keep going.

 

Quote

An m42 is a 30 year refresh of the M10

Heh.

 I view it as an adaptor kit to get an S14 head onto an M20 for testing purposes.

Or a productionized test mule.

It predates the M50 just a little (1987) and shares the M20 bottom end that the M50 continued.

They stole an Alfa (bad) idea for the little idler  on the cam chain

(dude, even International Harvester knows NOT to  use a toothed chain idler)

and a lot of the geometry from the S14 head.  

After they fixed the cam drive, they then started playing with little roller rockers in the M44.

Only BMW engine I know of that has a concentric crank- driven oil pump, too.

And yet, it has a stupidly deep oil pan...

If the S42b20 had ever been built in quantity, it mighta been cool.

 

But it wasn't.

 

so it wasn't.

 

t

fun thread!

[gary32]

1 hour ago, TobyB said:

Heh.

 I view it as an adaptor kit to get an S14 head onto an M20 for testing purposes.

Or a productionized test mule.

It predates the M50 just a little (1987) and shares the M20 bottom end that the M50 continued.

They stole an Alfa (bad) idea for the little idler  on the cam chain

(dude, even International Harvester knows NOT to  use a toothed chain idler)

and a lot of the geometry from the S14 head.  

After they fixed the cam drive, they then started playing with little roller rockers in the M44.

Only BMW engine I know of that has a concentric crank- driven oil pump, too.

 

In the post where I made the comment about the refresh I included an M42 attachment.

Sorry for the length of the attachment but all the issues you name here are covered by Jim Rowe including displacement increases. Not a sales agent fo Jim he just put together a thorough list of weak points and fixes.

Carry on.

[Benjamin A.R.]

16 hours ago, uai said:

Nitriding / straightening / polishing is a standard procedure in engine building/crankshaft grinding.

But it's not a DIY job

Indeed, maybe it's different in other countries, but here in the states almost no one does a good job nitriding undercut cranks. I think @evil02 has way more connections than me and he was saying he only knows of 2.

[Benjamin A.R.]

17 hours ago, gary32 said:

M10 with an s14 head 

 

Not sure what a "Cummins turbo" is but I think Benjamin means a big turbo and I encourage him and everyone

I know it's possible, but it's a giant PITA. Enough to the point where the only reason you would do it is if you could get an S14 head, timing stuff, covers, an oiling solution, and machine work done for the cost to port an M10 head. It's not really even worth considering because you'd end up spending just as much as a real S14 costs. Maybe 15 years ago if you were in some weird race class capped at 2.0... but then you should've just de-stroked an S14. I stand by my opinion of a boosted M42. In my opinion you can get all the flow you need with an M10 head in a turbo application. More boost is more cost effective than more valves which equals more fuel money which equals more fun!

 

A Cummins turbo refers to the family of Holset turbochargers owned by Cummins. I have a Holset HX30 Super on my M10 and an HX35 on my truck. They are designed for use on diesel engines pushing anywhere from 30 to 80+ PSI into an engine with a compression ratio already in the high teens. 

 

[Benjamin A.R.]

17 hours ago, evil02 said:

 

 Yes, you can build two pretty stout turbo M10's for the price of one S14. I mean the HP up top of a turbo S14 is pretty awesome but, not at the cost it takes to get there.

 

That's interesting, a turbo S14. See I was thinking comparing the cost of a basic-ish M10 turbo to what it costs to get an S14 to that power level NA. I wasn't even considering a turbo S14. I would think it would be peaky and really annoying in anything other than a race car yeah?

[tzei]

Two S14 turbo engines at sale here. Finnish i know but i think you'll get the idea. Hand deeeep into pocket

[ozgeorge]

20 hours ago, irdave said:

 

 

I've got a Colnago Master Light, too, with Record.  It's awesome.  It's flexy.  It's 20 pounds.  It's the only pretty thing I own.  It's all personal.  Is anything made in the last 20 years "better?"  Yeah, probably.  But I still enjoy it, so it's ok.  Do I think everyone needs to ride lugged steel?  No.  But they might enjoy it. 

 

Friend of mine likes to say,"Don't yuck another man's yum."  I have room in my world for all y'all to like what you like and drive what you want.

93 mapei master, super record 11. one of my favourite rides. 

[gary32]

Nice bikes Dave and George.

I used to own a Masi that was burnt orange all Campy super record maybe a little older than your Colnagos. Loved that bike but wore the frame out. Purchased this carbon fibre Le Mond off eBay for $500 several years ago. Was it silver soldered together by a craftsman with elegant period correct campy? No and I miss that.

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by gary32

[evil02]

8 hours ago, Benjamin A.R. said:

Indeed, maybe it's different in other countries, but here in the states almost no one does a good job nitriding undercut cranks. I think @evil02 has way more connections than me and he was saying he only knows of 2.

 

Nah, plenty will do it. I only trust these two guys as the really have a lot of experience. I am sure you can find a bunch of crank guys in Nascar area that do great work too but, you will pay dearly. The guys I use mainly do German cranks. I also have someone to cut new cranks but, the price is around $2500. That is fully engineered for rpm and strength.

 

Plenty of guys doing turbo S14's. I think there is a forum for it. Albeit not something that everyone is doing but, their out there,

 

A great formula is a Honda K24, turbo, K to Getrag adapter and use a Getrag 420g. You can get the whole clutch package and everything almost right off the shelf. We did this combination for an E30 M3.

Edited January 22, 2021 by evil02

[Benjamin A.R.]

Sneak peak for the gang, posting part 3 tomorrow. A new project has entered the chat...