02 Values too High

[eurotrash]

I’m with Slav. Been saying this for a few years now. The fun is gone, it’s all about money for everyone these days, even the guys who didn’t own them for value.  Makes me want to run my cars into a wall, just to watch the value obsessed cry dollar signs. (So to speak) 

Edited May 11, 2019 by eurotrash

[Simeon]

2 hours ago, eurotrash said:

it’s all about money for everyone these days, even the guys who didn’t own them for value. 

 

Yup. 8 pages of this thread for a start.

 

 

8 pages!

[roadhog0]

On 5/8/2019 at 8:22 PM, Slavs said:

Well, the Russians produced a few cool cars. I always liked the simple, economical and utilitarian  Lada Niva 4 x 4. It's kind of like the 02 of 4 x 4s.

 

Lord do I REALLY want to import one of these....

[roadhog0]

2 hours ago, eurotrash said:

I’m with Slav. Been saying this for a few years now. The fun is gone, it’s all about money for everyone these days, even the guys who didn’t own them for value.  Makes me want to run my cars into a wall, just to watch the value obsessed cry dollar signs. (So to speak) 

 

Ehhhh, I disagree. Maybe it's because I'm still in the cheap world. There's LOTS of cheap 02's and 02 hot rods up here in Seattle. We get to drive them year long and I dont think any of use do it for the money.

[D Seattle]

Ah come on. This is fun.

 

its not about money and anyone buying cars for money, are not buying these. They are buying 911s, restored mustang cobras, or Ferraris 

 

im getting close to 30k in on mine.   By definition, I’m part of the problem Slav is talking about.  But I’m not.  Il not doing it to flip, or hold and sell at a profit later .  I’m doing it because I want to and I can.  I’m doing it, in small part, because I had litterally five extended talks with people today I do not know, coming up and sharing stories about when they had one thirty years ago and wish they kept it. I’m doing it so I have a car I can actually work on the engine on and show my son how to change oil and a those  things our dads taught us as basic as tying your shoes but now a grown man can’t change their own tire

 

yes, I am very busy.  Too busy to do all my own work and I I’d rather, and can, just ink a check to have it done and enjoy it right now.   Not five years from now.  And have time to play with my kid.   And yes, I’d rather just ink a check for a grand for the original hair seat pads and have it done right the first time than experimenting for a month in my garage with foam. Time has a value too. 

 

Soooo.  I suppose basic economics are with increased demand and decreased supply that means prices go up.  So yes, there are those taking advantagr.  But I assure you, it’s not by speculators.  Again, anyone with money to speculate on c ars is not spending their time on these because they are not worth their time.  They are too cheap. 

 

 This is all fun and interesting, this conversation. Don’t take my words as my being offended. This is just an intellectual exercise. But as an intellectual exercise, you might pause to consider that it is people like me who are spending money preserving these cars, restoring them, and paying mechanics to help , etc., that are perhaps driving prices up, who are preserving them for the next generation  because 30 years from now, no one is going to want to take the time with a car that is still a half completed project. It will be the cars that people are spending 20 or $30,000 on to refresh now that will be the survivors.

 

of course, There are a lot of great people on this forum doing all of that theirselves and also preserving the cars. Kudos to them. I wish I had the time. You have my respect.  But, let’s save as many as we can.

 

 You guys are all great. Everyone on this thread is great. This is part of being involved in these cars. Having a passion about them.   Clearly we have an economic diversity of owners, but that is a good thing. 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by D Seattle

[SydneyTii]

10 hours ago, eurotrash said:

I’m with Slav. Been saying this for a few years now. The fun is gone, it’s all about money for everyone these days, even the guys who didn’t own them for value.  Makes me want to run my cars into a wall, just to watch the value obsessed cry dollar signs. (So to speak) 

Yeah nah, had these little cars for most of my adult (there’s  a stretch) life, and I couldn’t give a toss about the money.

Not interested, never will be, these cars represent fun times and fond memories, I’m absolutely stoked my daughter is now into them (and a little bit worried) but as sad as it may be, I’m a bit attached to them, god only knows why.

They cost what they cost, the parts are what they are, there’s bugger all I can do about it and I don’t give it a thought, if something is silly expensive, so what I don’t buy it.

life is too bloody short to care about this sort of thing. Just drive them and enjoy them while you can! 

They’re still fun, when the sun is almost up in the morning, I will be flogging it to on the long way to the beach, grab a coffee have a chat with the fellas if the surf is shit, like I do most weeks, and go home to the family, Stuff all the rest of that crap, it’s only a car, even if it’s a slightly special one?

Edited May 11, 2019 by SydneyTii

[Gordon]

On 5/8/2019 at 4:36 PM, Slavs said:

I don't hold any special admiration for the BMW marque. As far as I'm concerned, BMW doesn't appeal to me after the mid 70s. I've had an e30 325i convertible, and I couldn't wait to get rid of it so that I can focus on my 02s. That thing was inferior in every way, including the "baby six" with the rubber band for a timing chain.

You need to drive a 91 E30 318i/is with a DOHC M42 (timing chain) and that motor will change your opinion on E30's.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Gordon

[Gordon]

On 5/10/2019 at 9:07 PM, joebarthlow said:

 Last I checked, e21 values are still in the tank, yet they contain many of the modifications some people do to 2002s.

 

Sorry to say but E21 values have risen significantly in the past few years.  Call it supply and demand but the days of the cheap E21 are behind us. Most E21's have gone to the crusher.   E21 5-speed gearboxes, LSD and Recaro seats are now going for 4 figures.  I can't remember the last time I saw a E21 in a pik-a-part yard. If you find a cheap E21 5-speed, buy it because if you hesitate, it'll probably be gone when you come back for it.

[TVeye]

5 hours ago, Gordon said:

Sorry to say but E21 values have risen significantly in the past few years.  Call it supply and demand but the days of the cheap E21 are behind us. Most E21's have gone to the crusher.   E21 5-speed gearboxes, LSD and Recaro seats are now going for 4 figures.  I can't remember the last time I saw a E21 in a pik-a-part yard. If you find a cheap E21 5-speed, buy it because if you hesitate, it'll probably be gone when you come back for it.

 

a rising value in E21 parts has happend only because you can use them in a better car,

[2002A schwarz]

Spare parts are each day more difficult lots of NLA  ,  BMW removed 2002 VINs from database ,  no datacards.,

cars will increase price.

[Slavs]

The e21s littered the Pick A Part bone yards during the late 90s. There were 100s of them. That lasted for about 15 years. During that time the 245 5 speed gearboxes were plentiful along with limited slip diffs and Recaros. I would buy the spare tire and wheel because it was usually in excellent shape. I believe the stock tires were Continentals. You could walk through the yard and put together a nice set of tires and wheels for your 02 for $60. The limited slip diffs and 4 speed gearboxes were $75 while the 5 speed was $100. I only picked up the 5 speeds from cars with low odometer readings. Most of the 245s and LSDs were crushed. Only a small number were saved by us. They were cheap, but it wasn't necessarily easy pulling them. If you didn't want to pull them, you could buy them for about $250-$300. The complete motors were $125, while the heads were less than $40. I've also seen a good number of 02s and even some NK cars including the 1800Ti and 2000Ti, complete with Solex PHH40 carbs and air filter cans. The 3.0 sedans were all over the yards as well. Some of the 02s were pretty clean with very little rust, and these included the early 1600s. A few still stick out in my mind such as that 66 1600 Turf Green with light aircraft grey vinyl seats and two tone, Grey and black, interior panels. It was sitting complete and original in an unpaved dusty Pick A Part in Santa Paula, CA. I sat in it for a while because I immediately recognized this was a very unique, clean early car with a rare color combination. It was the first time I'd seen this interior. And, it looked really cool and classy. The car had very little rust. It could be had for $600 at the time. Those days are long gone. And, look what we have today ? It's no longer as fun.

 

Have you hung with the 356 Porsche crowd ? It's not very fun. That's where things are heading with the 02.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Slavs

[NYNick]

Look, it's pretty simple. Find and fix a car you love to drive. If everybody thinks the same way, they're expensive. If you're savvy and are onto a car that the rest of the world hasn't "discovered" yet, they're cheap. If the rest of the world catches on after you've owned it for a while, good for you!

 

There are plenty to choose from, but it's up to your personal preference. I did this with Porsches for years; Landcruisers and muscle cars; 02's these days.

 

The trick is not to care about what the ROW thinks. Own it because you love it. You might even make a buck or two long term, but that's not why you bought it in the first place, right?

[saaron]

I guess I’m a buzzard.  I bought my 02 in the ‘80s, because if you wanted a decent car in the ‘80s, you had to buy something from around 1970.  

 

Since I just drive my 02 around and talk about 02s with my friends, I don’t pay much attention to the buying and selling part of it.  I’m not smart enough, or handy enough, to make money arbitraging old cars.  I’m more of a buy high sell low guy.

 

I get nervous that parts will just not be able to be obtained.  An expensive part, and one you can’t get, are two different things.  

 

I get nervous that the experts on FAQ will drop off - I really need them.  

 

I still get crazy crushes on your guys’ cars.  I get little 30 min manias going, that luckily go away.  So that hasn’t changed, and won’t change.  

 

Lately, the best part of having an 02 is the cadre of pals it has created for me.  Low values or high values on the cars, the people are priceless.  

 

In closing, this post makes no sense.  

 

Yours in 02ness,

 

Scott

[jp5Touring]

The cars were way under valued , I owned a Chamonix 73 tii back in the the 90's restored, mint. I paid a crazy some of $6K.  Kids, life, work and too many cars I kept it under two years. 

I seen it at a car show two years ago and tried to buy it back, with no luck.

I realized then just how much I miss that car.  So the search started, it took 20 months and double the budget. It was worth every cent and minute to find one.

 

I look through all that glass and row the shifter and I smile. I smile a lot.

That is priceless, besides I don't fish.

 

Yes BAT can get silly with some of its sales, and that has impacted the market a bit.

These cars were very cheap for a long time, but there are still deals to be had.

 

 

[NYTransplant]

Prices are irrelevant until you sell.  I plan to keep my car for the long run, so the value of my car really doesn't matter.  I bought the car to drive.  It's not pretty, so my friends ask when I'm going to paint it.  I don't plan to for two reasons:

 

One, I'm afraid of what I'll find under the two Malaga paint jobs currently over the original Sahara paint.  I know there's little to no rust, but when I cleaned and lubricated the driver's door latch, I found I had an Agave replacement door.  Who knows what else is under the rest of it that could send me down a dent repair rabbit hole.

 

Two, if I paint it, I'll be afraid to drive it.  I have six BMWs in the garage, and Fritz is the one I jump in first if I just want to go for a drive on a whim.  I don't want that to change.

 

And most of all this:

 

32 minutes ago, saaron said:

Lately, the best part of having an 02 is the cadre of pals it has created for me.  Low values or high values on the cars, the people are priceless.  

 

The knowledge on this forum is amazing.  I've only been an '02 owner for less than a year, but a forum member for four years, lurking and learning about the cars for the first three.