02 Prices / Values

[2002Scoob]

Meh. They’re great cars that are highly appreciated in a highly appreciating classic car market.

I’ll be frank. I bought mine as an investment as much as for the love of the hobby and the platform, although the ratio of those have shifted the longer Ive owned it.

Yah... they’ve gotten more expensive, and so have the parts (that are also becoming more rare in good condition), but I’ve got my ‘02, and as long as the values are there and growing, I’m happy. I plan on driving it and enjoying it, and eventually and hopefully sell it for a profit. And I’m cool with that.

The increase was bound to happen, be happy if you got the one you want, or get a great deal in the current markets. I’m happy to have a rapidly appreciating asset I enjoy as a hobby.

There are a few outliers that maybe irk me a bit... mostly 1200 euro Getrag 245’s, 1000 euro LSD’s, etc.... but mostly because I want them and can’t afford them, not because I disagree with the values. I’d be stoked if I were sitting on a few of each and could rake a profit.

Now... steering boxes... dear lord. That’s some nonsense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mike A]

2 hours ago, NYNick said:

The thread is about 02's, but 912's were never 'designed to be the low budget brother of the 911'. Quite the opposite. The 912 was Porsche's reaction to the negativity surrounding the introduction of the 911 after the retiring the 356. The 912 outsold the 911 like, what? 4 to 1? The general public hated the change from 356 4 cylinder and bathtub body to (a much more expensive) 6 cylinder with a sleeker redesigned body style. Plus, they had a ton of leftover 356 engines to get rid of. The 912 fit the bill and peoples budget, even though they were still pricey.

 

Price wise, the 02 was a good competitor to the 912. Back then, it was common to see 02's and Porsches on the track. The 911's ate the 02's for lunch, but the Tii was a game changer for BMW and ate the 912's. Gotta tell ya; we 912 guys wanted Tii's. I know. I was one of them. They were faster, but by then, the 912's were history and the 911 was the car to own.

Don't let anybody tell you anything different. 912's spin just as easily as 911's. It's the EXACT same body with a different engine and some suspension bits. Very much like our base 02's and the Tii's. Same chassis, different bits.

 

The guy who owns the 02 and the 912 got my attention. Great stable of four bangers. Learn to drive a slow car fast and you'll learn to drive a fast car faster. But I bet he'd trade both for the same year 911 and Tii. They're better driving and handling cars.

 

I'd love to have another 912. I've owned 2.  But I'm not buying. I've got a 911 and a Tii. Best of both worlds.

 

Um..er..well ...Nick.  I love them both and each has its place in history, but I have to tell you I've never seen, heard or driven a 912 (or 356 SC) that will spin with a 911...factory original, modified, whatever....and I've owned  many of both.    The harmonics of the 4 and its  internal design are too limiting. The 6 cylinder boxer sings. As for its conception, all the texts I've read document the factory marketing of the 912 as "entry level" and "low budget brother".... like my first family car sports sedan a 72 2002 'cause I couldn't afford a Tii

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Mike A

[DRedman]

Wow just in time!  I'm going to put mine up for sale within the next 3 months.  I'm just too old to work and play with it.  71 roundie sunroof originated in CA and  it was moved to Northern Va in the early 80's.  It was Atlantic Blue with a change to Fjord and repainted twice again after I bought it.  Less than 2000 miles on Engine bored 1.0 over Mahle pistons with 292 shrick cam, Eric Kerman rebuilt head, Weber 38/38, 123 ignition, summit racing CD ignition with tach adapter, like new upholstery and like new BMW door panels.  AC Schnitzer E30 alloys, Volvo front brakes, 320i rear brakes.  Too much more to list here as I will use the classifieds when I'm ready.  This car is definitely worth 25k.

[NYNick]

45 minutes ago, Mike A said:

Um..er..well ...Nick.  I love them both and each has its place in history, but I have to tell you I've never seen, heard or driven a 912 (or 356 SC) that will spin with a 911...factory original, modified, whatever....and I've owned  many of both.    The harmonics of the 4 and its  internal design are too limiting. The 6 cylinder boxer sings. As for its conception, all the texts I've read document the factory marketing of the 912 as "entry level" and "low budget brother".... like my first family car sports sedan a 72 2002 'cause I couldn't afford a Tii

 

 

 

No biggie Mike. We can agree to disagree. It's about 02's anyway. Good luck with your project!

[Schnellvintage]

I think everyone here (all drivers) would rather enjoy driving, maintaining and putting money into a car that is appreciating, than buying a newer (so called better car) doing the same thing, but depreciating everyday and sometimes putting more money into just to keep it running. Labor costs are only going up also for the newer cars. Even basic classic mustangs are climbing up the appreciation tree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SteveJ]

In rhe past year we traded in my wife's 08 MINI Clubman. It was her baby. I saved it once by reworking a cylinder head, but when the auto trans went out she didn't want to drop another $3k in it only to have the value drop and who knows what else was gonna fail.

 

At the same time, I  was pumping twice that $ into a 73 Alfa spider. Main differences were that nearly everything that could fail had been fixed, and the value was still more than I had into it. 

 

Regardless, I enjoy wrenching and driving old cars. It's a hobby and I'm fortunate enough to be able to participate at some level. 

[Simeon]

I have been noodling around lately and thinking about buying a late 90’s Z3 E36 sports cars. These are currently about $9-10 K AUD here and I am thinking about using it for a daily driver plus a slow conversion into something for track days. This seems like a modern car to me but the adverts are full of them being ‘classics’ and given the fact that we are talking 20 year old cars, they are probably right. The price is still coming down on these as depreciating ‘old cars’. 

 

I wonder where the prices will go in future but would that make a difference in terms of my plans? Probably not. 

 

(Probably won’t be comparing the Z3 with Porsche 912s either). 

[Slavs]

I love the 02, not for just its aesthetics, but rather for its drivability and functionality. I'm proud to boast that I've driven the 02 as my primary source of transportation since 1982. I've clocked in excess of 600,000 miles on one of my 02s. Not many of you can claim this. I've personally performed just about all repairs on my cars including mechanical and bodywork. So, I'm not critical of the 02, but I'm critical of the rising prices of not just the cars, but the parts as well. The 02s are nowhere near as well supported as the VWs as far as aftermarket parts and spares. Parts have dried up. And, now, the opportunists looking to make a quick buck have stepped in just as they did during the California Gold Rush when prices for common commodities skyrocketed in San Francisco. What is a new set of front grilles, including the kidney grille selling for ? Simply ridiculous ! Years ago I stripped a very solid and clean stepped nose 1965 Alfa 1300 GT junior at one of those Pick Your Part yards. They wouldn't sell it to me because the car was actually driven into the yard. And, due to some technicality here in California, they placed sand into the fuel tank. I took just about everything off that car and sold the parts to a friend who collected Alfas. I only asked to recoup the money I spent on the parts. I remember selling the DCOE Webers to him for $36.00. And  then there were also the polished aluminum intake,  front grille etc. I never thought about the money or what the parts are actually worth. For those of you familiar with Alfas, you know that those parts are way more expensive than similar parts on an 02. There are always opportunists, but things have gotten much worse. Here in Los Angeles there is a guy in the Arts District of Los Angeles who has become one of the premier vintage Porsche flippers. He markets himself, his loft and the cars to fetch top dollar for complete rust buckets rescued from some ditch. What a sham ! A clean and strong running 356 cost about $3,000 back in 1983. A Porsche 912 put you back about $4,000 while a 1967-68 911 cost about $6,000. That same 911 can set you back $250,000 + in today's market. We bought 02s and Porsche 356s on our summer salaries during high school. Who can buy a 1967 911 today ? Things have changed and so have the people who own these cars. It's a different world today.

[2002Scoob]

Meh, again.

 

If he were my buddy Id'a charged him a hundred for the Webers as a finder's fee. And if he scoffed, I'd put em on ebay for way more. If he's collecting parts, (like allot of guys who collect nice parts for cheap) he's doing it as much for the love of hoarding shiny stuff as he is for a payout, or that late-in-life cash boost. Yes... Even if he won't admit it to others (or even himself).

 

 He's the guy who's wife finally tells him to clear out the garage, and starts throwing kidneys, diffs, trans, and belt-trim up for boo-coo bucks because he knows what he got, and he was smart enough or got in early enough to get while the gettin's good. Now of course, as a circle of enthusiasts, there's always a discount for authenticity in ownership. I'll happily make a deal with someone with real passion and let something special go for a deal, or cheap go for free, but you can have passion without shame of wanting your passions to be profitable. 

 

I'll let other's be bitter about sky-high prices when I eventually sell Brunhilde. I hope at that point they're all moaning about how they used to cost 25k, and now they're 80-120!

Edited October 8, 2018 by 2002Scoob

[2002Scoob]

Also... is it really that crazy of a valuation? If you made the argument that 2002's were to only just hold their value, then....

 

 

[AustrianVespaGuy]

I'm firmly in the camp of disappointed that values have climbed rather steeply in the recent years.  Like many of us, I intend to keep my 2002 forever so the market value is of very little importance to me.  But on the other side of the coin, since I DO like to drive the car a lot, it used to be nice to know that if something happened, it was (minus my own sweat equity) readily replaceable and parts were easily had without breaking the bank.  It's still not bad-like-911s yet, but I had my first 2002 in college 15 years ago and I don't think I'd be able to swing that again if I were a on a student budget today.

But the reality is, while there's still plenty out there, nobody is putting any more 2002s out on the market, so as time goes on, the pool will continue to shrink due to attrition.  Further more, nobody (I'm looking at all of you OEMs that are now run by 2.5 GPA marketing and business students!) is putting ANY kind of car with 2002-esqe characteristics on the market.  Which means those of us who value what the 2002 embodies - a well balanced, excellent handling, back seat a person can actually sit in, communicative handling, good visibility, charismatic, DIY friendly, fun to drive, affordable, and most importantly 3-pedaled car - are basically SOL for alternatives.

It's the same unfortunate trend that happened even more pointedly to the sport aircraft industry.  Look at all the light aircraft out at a small regional airport one day.  All the Cessnas, Pipers, Aeroncas, etc. pretty much all have 30-50 year old airframes.  The market shifted and today a small private plane like that is WAAY higher-end, and can't be had for much less than half a million, so the majority of the enthusiasts stick with keep all the old stuff going as long as possible.

So for me, I guess the moral is if you want one, get a 2002 sooner rather than later, drive the hell out of it, and pay close attention to what 'else' is on the market that you might like, because I think ALL good cars like this are starting to go the way of the dinosaur.  For myself, well I supplemented the 2002 with an E30 since they ARE still plentiful and cheap enough, and it now has the majority of track/autox/etc. duty in order to avoid putting the 2002 into a tire wall.  And I'm in the market for an E39 M5 for the family/street car.  The 2002 then still goes out for all the weekend activities, car events, mountain drives, and the occasional trip to the store.  With those 3, I hope to be set for life, cause I doubt anything better will ever come along.

[adawil2002]

The values for 02s have gone up 10x in the past 10 years.

 

With that calculation my 1973 Tii would be worth $150K which is fine by me. We all know the actual value/price is lower than that, yet at the same time still considered expensive compared to when I was in college and bought 2 21 year old '02s for $3K.

[John_in_VA]

7 minutes ago, AustrianVespaGuy said:

 And I'm in the market for an E39 M5 for the family/street car. 

 

You best find one soon - prices are up for these, too!

[AustrianVespaGuy]

16 minutes ago, John_in_VA said:

You best find one soon - prices are up for these, too!

No kidding, but not yet terribly so.  I think they bottomed out a few years ago, and are now starting their forever climb.  I'm budgeting $20-$25k for one with 80-100k miles in decent but not perfect shape, but I'm trying to be patient for my right color combo (LeMans Blue on blue!) to come along.  I feel this isn't bad though, considering my 2002 is worth almost exactly the same amount, but it started life as mid-priced family car, while the M5 started out as a range-topping pseudo-supersedan!  Maintenance costs though, are a different story.  The E39 I think is *just-barely-still-DIY-manageable* while the 2002 of course is completely on the other side as 'downright-fun-to-work-on!'

[jp5Touring]

Actuallly, I think the cars have been under valued for at least 5 years if not 10.