So, my tii is being frustrating... Is it worth it?

[irdave]

So really frustrating.  I'm sure it's just my unfamiliarity with them, but just really frustrating.

 

Is the tii that much more better than a set of dual carbs?  Is it worth it to keep figuring it all out?

 

So it seems I need to find someone or someway to check the curve on the dizzy, opening pressures on the fuel injectors, verify fuel pressure at the pump...

 

Problem is is that it doesn't want to idle.  It was idling and running really soft, but then I started going to through stuff, and obviously I either adjusted something incorrectly or adjusted something correctly that is now causing a problem.  Plug one often comes out wet, 2 fluffy black, 3 kind of not terrible and 4 a little fluffy black.  Compression (before I adjusted all the valves- they were all tight) was between 145 and 150 across the board.  I didn't do a leak down yet.

 

And then I had some frustration with Ireland Engineering.  And then I rang JF Pro to order some throttle linkages and was told the '72's just run rather rich, even at sea level- and I'm 5,000 ft...

[otisdog]

Somebody on the FAQ had many issues getting his tii to run properly....turns out that his Kugelfisher pump had been adjusted to perform at a higher altitude (Denver?).

[AustrianVespaGuy]

Just one sec while I finish zipping up my flamesuit. . . there! Ok ready!  So, plenty of differing opinions out there I'm sure, but if I had a tii that was giving me K-fischer troubles, I'd remove most of it except for the intake, change it over to EFI, and then sell the rest of the Kuglefischer parts to other tii-purists in need to offset the conversion.  Not something I'd recommend to someone 'looking for' a tii, but since you've already got it and are considering your options, figured I'd chime in.  Not that there's anything wrong with carbs either mind, but helps keep that second 'i' in the tii, ya know?

[tomphot]

I guess it depends on how you value your car - you take the Tii stuff off and it's no longer a Tii - might worth the $$ to get it figured out.

Hagerty Values....

 

'72 Tii

#4   $11,500

#3   $20,800

#2   $36,100

 

'72 non-Tii

#4   $7,900

#3   $13,900

#2   $23,600

[Simeon]

10 minutes ago, tomphot said:

I guess it depends on how you value your car - you take the Tii stuff off and it's no longer a Tii - might worth the $$ to get it figured out.

Hagerty Values....

 

'72 Tii

#4   $11,500

#3   $20,800

#2   $36,100

 

'72 non-Tii

#4   $7,900

#3   $13,900

#2   $23,600

 

It would be worse than that. Rather buy a car that had always been a carbed car than one butchered for unspecified reasons. 

 

It's painful I know but everyone sings the praises of a well sorted tii. Even if you did pull it out and replace it with sidedrafts, this is not a plug and play response. By the time you have that sorted, you could have worked through your issues with the KFish injection. 

[markmac]

If you don't have the skills to set the car up and tune it, find someone who does.

a.  Condition of engine?  Seems like you have decent compression, do a leak down test.

b.  Condition of kugel pump and injectors.  If you don't know (the condition) send them out to someone who can test and or test and repair.

c.  Test/check your distributor and other ignition bits

d.  Sometimes overlooked, have your throttle body checked out (bushings etc.,)

e.  Linkages, sounds like you know the drill, if they haven't been replaced, replace them now.

 

I have had a couple of tii's over my lifetime, when properly set up they are sweet and don't need much if any 'fooling' with.  Any one or more of the above that is jacked up will not allow them to run well (and often much less than that depending on which you have).  The hard part is finding someone that can work on them (tii), plenty of folks will tell you no problem we can do this/that....very few in my experience can back it up in reality.  Not sure who that person might be in your area.  Nothing quite like a well sorted set-up tii, lots of fun.  Good luck with your project.

[Mike Self]

Get a copy of Mike McCartney's second 2002 book; it has a very comprehensive section on tuning the K-fish setup, and he does it with tools that you either have in your toolbox, or ones you can make (not the unobtainium factory tools).  After reading that section, I think even I, who have never owned a tii, could tune one.

 

mike

Edited November 19, 2017 by mike

[conkitchen]

Have a look at these PDF's

 

but what do I know 

SKM_C3350150126114900.pdf

SKM_C3350150126114901.pdf

[JsnPpp]

2 hours ago, markmac said:

If you don't have the skills to set the car up and tune it, find someone who does.

a.  Condition of engine?  Seems like you have decent compression, do a leak down test.

b.  Condition of kugel pump and injectors.  If you don't know (the condition) send them out to someone who can test and or test and repair.

c.  Test/check your distributor and other ignition bits

d.  Sometimes overlooked, have your throttle body checked out (bushings etc.,)

e.  Linkages, sounds like you know the drill, if they haven't been replaced, replace them now.

 

I have had a couple of tii's over my lifetime, when properly set up they are sweet and don't need much if any 'fooling' with.  Any one or more of the above that is jacked up will not allow them to run well (and often much less than that depending on which you have).  The hard part is finding someone that can work on them (tii), plenty of folks will tell you no problem we can do this/that....very few in my experience can back it up in reality.  Not sure who that person might be in your area.  Nothing quite like a well sorted set-up tii, lots of fun.  Good luck with your project.

 

Totally agree with Marks (and everyone's) comments. A nicely sorted Tii is a fun ride, worth it both financially and for high grin factor.

 

Check those linkages, if you can push on them and they move at all without moving the butterfly then get new ones. McArtneys book is solid too to get the foundation. THere are also a couple of older roundel articles that are helpful.

 

It took me some time but at the end of it all wound up with a nicely running stock Tii. You can do it! If need be take a break from it for a week or two.

 

Good luck and report back!

 

Jason

Edited November 20, 2017 by JsnPpp

[ray_]

Also ensure your cold start valve and warm up regulator are behaving properly. 

 

What plugs are you running?

 

Keep chipping away at it.

 

Cheers,

[mvliotta]

You can do it. 

 

I bought a tii with absolutely no idea what I was doing a few years ago. In fact, changing the oil was as much as ever did on any car before I sorted out my tii. It took lots of reading and experimenting over a few months.

 

The first couple of steps, which were critical for me, were to 1) replace all the ignition components and 2) eliminate vacuum leaks. Then proceeded to timing, injector cleaning, and tuning. A wideband O2 meter (AFR sensor) was great to have for the latter steps. 

 

It'll be worth it.

 

Vince

 

 

 

 

[JAS]

Hear your pain. Speaking as someone who bought a rough running tii and couldn't find anyone knowledgeable (or interested) enough to fix it, I found the best (if not only) solution was to learn how to diagnose and solve the problems myself (with heaps of help from many of the knowledgeable members on this board). Took awhile but it paid off when I got it running the way it should. I knew I had finally solved the puzzle when the engine took on its second wind past 3,500 RPM and quickly sought 5,000, 6,000...wore an ear to ear grin for the rest of the week.

 

Need to work the problem - fuel, air, spark. Rule out the most obvious (and sometimes easiest) things first, then go to the hard stuff. If you haven't done so already, download the factory tii manual, video, get McCartney's book, etc. Make sure all the fuel pressures, linkage lengths, and settings are where they are supposed to be. Make sure the runners and other intake bits don't have air leaking in, the warm up regulator is working properly,...etc., etc.  With the tii, sometimes small adjustments can really make a difference - good or bad depending...

 

I was advised to convert to sidedrafts early on by a local mechanic. Glad I didn't.

 

Hang in there! 

[wegweiser]

Looks like you're in Colorado, right? I don't know how far you are from Wheatridge CO, but you might consider taking the car to Motoporter (Arthur Porter's place) for setting it all up. Arthur and his crew do some amazing stuff. He's been in it for a long time. He'll have the skills / personnel to get it right. 

[adawil2002]

When I bought Vern he was tuned for 8500 feet for Norwood & Telluride Colorado. The system is pretty easy to set up with the tools one can source on ebay including the 85mm linkage jig.

 

Visit http://www.2002tii.org/kb/59 for tuning pdfs and a video.

 

May be best to follow Wegweiser's advice and travel the hour to Denver and have it tuned.

[SydneyTii]

3 hours ago, mike said:

Get a copy of Mike McCartney's second 2002 book; it has a very comprehensive section on tuning the K-fish setup, and he does it with tools that you either have in your toolbox, or ones you can make (not the unobtainium factory tools).  After reading that section, I think even I, who have never owned a tii, could tune one.

 

mike

This is some of the best advice you will get!

McCartney knew his stuff.

His guide in the book is exactly how I learnt to setup my kuglefischer and check my warm up regulator.

Once you understand it then you will find it very easy to maintain, mine really is set and forget.

If you work through the fueling, supply, cleanliness, pressure, and make the checks as recommended by Rob the hack mechanic, along with the McCartney book you will not only learn something but understand your car much better.

I reckon you will enjoy it as well, its very satisfying.

The Tii is a very nice car to drive when setup correctly.