5-speed swap beginning tomorrow - any hot tips?

[zinz]

Maybe read here? 4 speed versus 5 speed but similar internals up front. Hope this isn’t the problem, but if so, it can be repaired.

 

Ed

[kbmb02]

13 hours ago, MattL said:

Well, that wasn’t it. 18mm. Any other possibilities, or am I sunk?

 

Was it purchased as a ‘gambler’, or were you told it was in good working condition?

[MattL]

@Buckeye That bolt won't budge, unfortunately. The head edges started to deform, so I don't want to keep at it. I put some PB Blaster on it to soak, and I'll give it another try in a bit.

 

@zinz Thanks, Ed. I'll give that a read today. 

 

@kbmb02 I purchased it dropped and repaired, but "fully functional." So, I was not expecting any issues. And it was sold by @resra, who has an excellent reputation (and was great to deal with). I don't think there's any way he would have shipped it if he knew it didn't have reverse or 5th. Still, I don't know what I could have done to bugger it up. It's been sitting in my garage, in its original (well-packed) shipping container since it arrived many months ago. I didn't do anything but take the box lid off to verify there was a transmission in there.  (It looked beautiful, by the way: see pictures higher up in the thread.) I only unpacked it a few weeks ago when I had all the other parts ready for the conversion, and I've treated it really gingerly whenever I've moved it. I did screw up the drain plug threads somehow while it was strapped to the jack, and then took it down to my local transmission guy to rebuild the threads. To be safe, I did all the loading, unloading, and carrying, both to and from. Incidentally, we couldn't get the output flange unbolted, but I don't see how that would be related. 

[resra]

@MattL PM replied to. 

[MattL]

That's some awesome response time, @resra. Thanks for the reply and offers to help. You continue to be a great seller to deal with. 

[Buckeye]

55 minutes ago, MattL said:

@Buckeye That bolt won't budge, unfortunately. The head edges started to deform, so I don't want to keep at it. I put some PB Blaster on it to soak, and I'll give it another try in a bit.

That is strange, because there is not any specific torque stated in Service Manual Book for that bolt. It should be just snug.

 

anyway, I am thinking that trans is stuck in one of the gears therefore pin inside pushed back causing spring to compress and putting tension that that bolt. Try using 19mm boxed wrench and hammer see if it budge. 

[MattL]

@Buckeye After a few dozen more light whacks with the dead blow, the box wrench did loosen the bolt. After about a quarter turn of the bolt, there was a light metallic snap, which I assumed was a detent spring or something. At that point, I tried the shifter again. Now it only shifts up into 3rd and down into 4th. It’ll still press to the right towards 5th, but won’t travel up the gate to go into gear. And now it won’t even go left towards 1st and 2nd, let alone reverse. Continued backing the bolt out 2, then 3 turns, then removed completely. Put it back in while in neutral, then tightened to snug. No change at any stage. Ugh. 

[Buckeye]

Usually when locking pin is removed you are taking tension off of selector rod splined sleeve which should let you go thru each gear. Removing trans cover will reveal why selector rod won't engage in 5th or any other gears. I am not suggesting that since don't know what all has been done to it or not. I have torn and assembled a few 4 speed trans before and know 5 speed a bit different but overall mechanism and a lot innards very similar with exception 5 speed has additional gears and components.

Attached transmission document for you reference. Second part of document talks about 5 speed transmission.

 

Transmission.pdf

 

 

[MattL]

Thanks, @Buckeye. I’ll read through all of that. I reluctantly agree that it looks like taking that front plate off is the next step toward solving this. I really hope I can get the output flange off. 
 

I think I’ll probably reinstall the 4-speed in the meantime. Can’t keep not driving the car, but 5-speed glory felt so close I could taste it! Oh well. Driving it, working on it, getting temporarily bummed by its minor setbacks: it’s all gravy. The car is a beautiful reminder of how fortunate I am, even when it’s a pain it the ass. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by MattL

[mvliotta]

Matt,

Don’t know if it will help you, but I have a spare getrag 245 which is in questionable shape that might provide some needed parts?

 

It spins with a little resistance and I’ve shifted through all the gears with a screwdriver. That said, I would not put it in my car without some investigation as there is evidence it sat outside for a while. 
 

Anyway, would be happy to help you realize your 5 speed swap if you are willing to drive up to north NJ to pick it up.  
 

Vince
 

 

[Vicleonardo1]

1 hour ago, MattL said:

Thanks, @Buckeye. I’ll read through all of that. I reluctantly agree that it looks like taking that front plate off is the next step toward solving this. I really hope I can get the output flange off. 
 

I think I’ll probably reinstall the 4-speed in the meantime. Can’t keep not driving the car, but 5-speed glory felt so close I could taste it! Oh well. Driving it, working on it, getting temporarily bummed by its minor setbacks: it’s all gravy. The car is a beautiful reminder of how fortunate I am, even when it’s a pain it the ass. 

Bummer.... Well I will guess it is a good thing you didn't cut or drill out your original 4 speed supports.....?

[MattL]

1 hour ago, mvliotta said:

Matt,

Don’t know if it will help you, but I have a spare getrag 245 which is in questionable shape that might provide some needed parts?

 

It spins with a little resistance and I’ve shifted through all the gears with a screwdriver. That said, I would not put it in my car without some investigation as there is evidence it sat outside for a while. 
 

Anyway, would be happy to help you realize your 5 speed swap if you are willing to drive up to north NJ to pick it up.  
 

Vince
 

 

Wow, Vince, that is quite an offer, and I will gladly take you up on it! I’ll send you a PM. Thank you!

[MattL]

41 minutes ago, Vicleonardo1 said:

Bummer.... Well I will guess it is a good thing you didn't cut or drill out your original 4 speed supports.....?

You’re not kidding! I had just put a cutting wheel on the grinder when I tested out the shifting!

[MattL]

Update for those interested:

 

Thanks to Steve's ( @2002) suggestion, I confirmed that the “Operating lever” was detached. Wouldn’t go back in. I chamfered and polished the edge of the bolt and lined up the lever perfectly with a pick through the hole. Still wasn’t going all the way in. Snugged it down so it was grabbing the lever but not clamping it down. Shifted into fifth then back to neutral as gently as possible. Snugged the bolt down as tight as I could to keep the lever in that position. (I could feel it was “on the pivot hole but not aligned well enough to go in.) Twisted the selector rod over to the reverse gate and it pushed through for the first time. Checked the bolt, and it had lined up with the hole and could now be tightened all the way down/in. Can now shift through all gears. Need to put the input shaft shim/lockring/seal/flange back on, fill her up and do the drill thing to make sure she’s actually functioning well. Fingers crossed that I'll have it installed within a week or two. 

 

To clarify: I'm certain the lever was detached by my dumb ass before I ever looked at a diagram, thinking the bolt on top was the fill plug: @resra sent me a good box and I screwed it up! Sorry for putting that fact into any doubt, resra!

[MattL]

Latest update: I’ve confirmed that the bell housing bolt pattern was warped, either by the initial damage or the repair. So, the bolt pattern is off and the transmission won’t bolt up. Luckily, there’s a bmw transmission guy not too far from here. (Thanks for the referral, @stone02 .) So, I’ll be taking my tranny and the parts unit Vince donated over to him. (Thanks again, Vince!) 
 

Since Gordon won’t be able to get to it for at least 8 weeks, I’m putting the 4-speed back in. I’ve replaced the pilot bearing, flywheel and clutch, and I figured getting the 4-speed reinstalled would be relatively painless. ? Boy was I wrong. Banged up my knuckles and exhausted my vocabulary last weekend. Going to give it another go this afternoon. 
 

What a saga.