Best engine advice 1600

[larryt]

hey guys, i know this subject has been approached before for the 2.0lt engines, but what (if any) are my choices for increasing the power output of my 1600? is it worth it at all? ideally i dont want to do a swap, id like to keep the stock engine in the car but im finding it more and more dull to drive. any advise very welcome. thanks 

[TobyB]

Turrrrbbbbooooooo...

 

but if you have a single- barrel carb, still, swap that, a moderate cam, and maybe exhaust will be a start...

 

 

hth,

t

[larryt]

28 minutes ago, TobyB said:

Turrrrbbbbooooooo...

 

but if you have a single- barrel carb, still, swap that, a moderate cam, and maybe exhaust will be a start...

 

 

hth,

t

 

This is a good start, whats my carb options tho. im so lost with it all and at my wits end with slowness

[andyleonard]

From experience - I have NEVER had a 1600 that kept it's original motor - once you start itching for more speed, pouring money into a 1600 is a false economy. They cost just as much as a 2 liter to soup up and when you finally decide you want a bigger motor, no one will buy it or the parts from you. Unless you want an historically accurate 1600 or are after a tweaker 1600Ti for grins, a 400cc/20%  deficit is going to be tough to overcome with carbs, cams and headers. 

Depending on your compression ratio a turbo will get it. Don't forget Bernie got 1100hp out of a 1500 M10 block. But he was taller standing on his wallet. Otherwise find a 2002 core motor somewhere and start your build.

The other thing you could do is buy a good tweaker motor from someone who's upgrading, save your motor aside, and later you have the option of reversing the process and selling the original 1600 whole and the 2002 motor separately.

[Einspritz]

I say celebrate an original properly tuned 1600. It is what it is. Drive it like you lived in Germany, you know, above 3000 rpm!

 

And how can you complain with 30+ MPG?

[Flunder]

A restorer told me that they bored a customer's matching 1600 block to 2002 bore size, installed a 2 liter crank and rods mated up to flat top pistons and retained the 118 head.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Flunder

[Conserv]

12 hours ago, andyleonard said:

From experience - I have NEVER had a 1600 that kept it's original motor - once you start itching for more speed, pouring money into a 1600 is a false economy. They cost just as much as a 2 liter to soup up and when you finally decide you want a bigger motor, no one will buy it or the parts from you. Unless you want an historically accurate 1600 or are after a tweaker 1600Ti for grins, a 400cc/20%  deficit is going to be tough to overcome with carbs, cams and headers. 

Depending on your compression ratio a turbo will get it. Don't forget Bernie got 1100hp out of a 1500 M10 block. But he was taller standing on his wallet. Otherwise find a 2002 core motor somewhere and start your build.

The other thing you could do is buy a good tweaker motor from someone who's upgrading, save your motor aside, and later you have the option of reversing the process and selling the original 1600 whole and the 2002 motor separately.

 

Larry,

 

I agree with Andy, given your facts.

 

If yours was a highly original car, I’d do a “1600ti number” on the engine (higher compression and dual sidedrafts). But your car is substantially modified already. A 2.0-liter swap alone will give it a sizable boost, even in stock tune. Keep the original 1.6-liter block and 118 head with the car: you never know what this car’s future might hold and numbers-matching 1600-2’s are increasingly rare.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Conserv

[TG2k2]

I am going through the same thing with my 1.6L engine as I look to rebuild it. The advice that many have given me is the following:

1. Install a more aggressive cam. Most people use the 292 or 300 cam which will give you a bump in performance without sacrificing drivability.

3. Use higher compression pistons. Personally I prefer to keep things stock in this area (where possible) but it is an option. The problem is this typically means expensive machine shop time that can very quickly add up.

4. Make sure your gear ratio is the best one for your setup. There are plenty of articles on the FAQ about the different ratios that will help you determine which one is best for you (I would be happy to give you advice but I am by no means an expert in this area).

5. Once you have configured the engine as you want it you can start looking in to things that will help get the most out of it. For example, installing a lighter flywheel. These types of upgrades won’t give you more power but they will ensure the power that is generated is going towards overall performance as opposed to turning an unnecessarily heavy flywheel.

The 1.6L engines are known for their buttery smooth, high-revving capabilities. You can get more out of them but be careful not to go overboard. There is a fine line between reaching the engine’s potential and losing the attributes that make them so special. Take your time to speak with people who have done the same. Once you know what you want carefully plan your implementation and you will achieve your goal without making any sacrifices.

Good luck!

[AceAndrew]

3 hours ago, andyleonard said:

From experience - I have NEVER had a 1600 that kept it's original motor - once you start itching for more speed, pouring money into a 1600 is a false economy.

 

x2 .... diminishing returns.  If it were mine, the stock engine would be wrapped and carefully set in a corner.  

[arminyack]

I have been running with a bone stock 1.6L for a number of years now. It has served me well. I was going to put 2X Dellorto DHLA's on it. I have everything to do it....but then I decided as the others have above. They'res no replacement for displacement. After I got a 2L Alfa with a hot motor, the 1600 became almost undriveable. Especially now, since I have upgraded the brakes, and upgraded to a Ground Control suspension kit....it can stop on a dime, and go around corners like a cat on a carpet....but when I press on the gas pedal after exiting a corner....it's bitterly disappointing.  That's why I have a Tii motor sitting in my garage, waiting to go in ?

[Road trip]

I’m the owner of a 1968 bmw 1600

swsped in a o2 fully built.

now looking for ideas to use 1600 engine

as coffee table ( glass topped )

[mccusername]

8 hours ago, Conserv said:

If yours was a highly original car, I’d do a “1600ti number” on the engine (higher compression and dual sidedrafts). But your car is substantially modified already. A 2.0-liter swap alone will give it a sizable boost. Keep the original 1.6-liter block with the car: you never know what this car’s future might hold and numbers-matching 1600-2’s are increasingly rare.

 

 

Steve,

 

I'm curious to hear your opinion-- I recently bought the April '67 1600 from Coastalcrush408 that is very original with almost all the rare bits. So is it unique and interesting enough to keep the engine dead stock (maybe even going back to 6 volt, at least in appearance)? Or make it a 1600ti clone under the hood? 

 

I've always been curious if you make a 1600ti clone, with higher compression pistons, and then later switch back to the single barrel carb for looks, would you still have a little performance boost? Or an undrivable 1600?

 

Of course non of this would happen for years, but it's never too early to start collecting parts.

 

Michael

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Conserv]

6 hours ago, mccusername said:

 

Steve,

 

I'm curious to hear your opinion-- I recently bought the April '67 1600 from Coastalcrush408 that is very original with almost all the rare bits. So is it unique and interesting enough to keep the engine dead stock (maybe even going back to 6 volt, at least in appearance)? Or make it a 1600ti clone under the hood? 

 

I've always been curious if you make a 1600ti clone, with higher compression pistons, and then later switch back to the single barrel carb for looks, would you still have a little performance boost? Or an undrivable 1600?

 

Of course non of this would happen for years, but it's never too early to start collecting parts.

 

Michael

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Michael,

 

My personal point of view (those with more technical knowledge may have a more nuanced view than mine):

 

The general advantages of higher compression ratios are additional power and, often, better gas mileage. The general disadvantage is — assuming the ratio is 9.0:1 to 9.5:1 — that you’ll probably need to use high-test gasoline (91 octane). Some here will argue that regular gas is fine as long as you can’t hear pre-detonation (knock). I’m probably conservative in that I believe that pre-detonation can be subtle and un-detected in a noisy car like an ‘02 and, in the absence of the electronic knock detection and automated timing adjustment found in modern cars, you’re counting on your ear to protect your engine. Similarly, I personally have decided I would rather sacrifice additional power gains available at higher compression ratios, e.g., 10.0:1, than feel a need to find, for example, 93-octane gas to fill up the tank.

 

If you get accustomed to twin sidedrafts on your 9.5:1 engine, you’ll probably feel somewhat let down when you return to the single downdraft Solex, but some (small) portion of your power gain should nonetheless remain, the result of that higher compression ratio. Of course, the need for high-test gas will likely also remain.... ?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Conserv

[Conserv]

12 hours ago, Flunder said:

A restorer told me that they bored a customer's matching 1600 block to 2002 bore size, installed a 2 liter crank and rods mated up to flat top pistons and retained the 118 head.

 

 

This, however, is not something I’d recommend with a numbers-matching engine, as it’s not generally reversible. I suppose, of course, that, at least theoretically, one might be able to “sleeve” the engine back to 1.6 liters and re-install the 1.6-liter crank. But no one would ever do that! ?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

[mccusername]

1 hour ago, Conserv said:

This, however, is not something I’d recommend with a numbers-matching engine,

 

So do you consider a numbers-matching engine still 'original' if the only changes are internal? Porting/polishing/balancing? Slightly oversized pistons?  Hard to know where to draw the line. For me, unless it's an historic race engine or something, I'm fine with internal improvements, even in a car that is being kept 'original'. My 1600 still has no sway bars, a tiny clutch, single circuit brakes and control arms made out of bird bones, so I should probably stop day dreaming about more horsepower.