effects of distributor a tooth off? and other frustrations

[Pablo M]

I'm tired. Very tired. 

 

After installing my rebuilt head I've got the car starting and running, although until its up to operating temp it needs messaging with the throttle. Won't hold a steady rpm, at idle or on the throttle, cold or at temp.

I only have a basic timing light and the crank pulley marks are nowhere near the cover mark at any rpm, with timing light set at 27* or 35* or anywhere in between. I can't keep it idling smoothly at 2800rpm though. 

I have the Haynes manual and the factory service manual. 

I am not using the flywheel ball. Ive read enough testimonials here that work fine off the crank pulley I am confident I should be able to get it running using that method. 

 

When I reinstalled the stock dizzy (002 dizzy, 1972 tii) I inserted it as I took it out, to the best of my knowledge, using paint marks on the dizzy. The paint mark on the mounting point was removed in cleaning the head, and I used a photo to approximate its 'before' orientation. 

Could it have gone in one tooth off? If it is one tooth off, how would engine run, or would it at all?

My next step would be to set #1at TDC, remove dizzy again, and follow service manual instructions on reinstalling it. 

 

Also, I have a 123 dizzy waiting to go in but wanted to put my engine back together as it was and get it running before trying to add a variable. I'm wondering if I should just install the 123 now. Thoughts?

 

Further to my frustrations, there seems to be a significant amount of oil leaking from the engine/trans juncture, some coming from the lowest bolt on passenger side. Guessing rear main seal has bought the farm.

Also leaking a bit of coolant from the short hose between Tstat and WP. I can't get it any further on the WP as it hits the pulley/belt and its as tight as I can get it. New hose and clamps are probably in order?

Also, also, a couple drops of oil coming from the timing chain tensioner access point, but the big 19mm nut is on as tight as I can get it. I had previously torqued it down as well. 

 

Like I said, I'm getting very tired...

 

[Rob Zaeos]

24 minutes ago, Pablo M said:

Further to my frustrations, there seems to be a significant amount of oil leaking from the engine/trans juncture, some coming from the lowest bolt on passenger side. Guessing rear main seal has bought the farm

This could be the one bolt in the distributor housing that needs a speacial sealing washer. If you don’t have it it drips out on the back side of the engine. 
 

For the distributor, I would definitely just follow the manual a reinstalling. And you could just put the 123 in so you could tune on the fly.

[Hans]

#1 at TDC on firing stroke. Rotor should be under #1 plug wire.

[Chris_B]

2 hours ago, Pablo M said:

 

Could it have gone in one tooth off? If it is one tooth off, how would engine run, or would it at all?

This concept is meaningless in the context of distributors. For proper timing, the rotor in your distributor must point at the #1 cylinder pickup in the cap at the right time. How does that happen? You rotate the distributor until that occurs. Having the distributor a tooth off doesn't mean anything because the distributor can be rotated 360 degrees until you reach the correct timing.

[Pablo M]

3 hours ago, Rob Zaeos said:

This could be the one bolt in the distributor housing that needs a speacial sealing washer. If you don’t have it it drips out on the back side of the engine. 
 

For the distributor, I would definitely just follow the manual a reinstalling. And you could just put the 123 in so you could tune on the fly.

I didn’t notice any oil higher up. I’ll check tomorrow. Seems it was just at the bottom. 
milk have to review the 123 installation instructions. 
 

 

3 hours ago, Hans said:

#1 at TDC on firing stroke. Rotor should be under #1 plug wire.

That was correct on reinstallation. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Chris_B said:

This concept is meaningless in the context of distributors. For proper timing, the rotor in your distributor must point at the #1 cylinder pickup in the cap at the right time. How does that happen? You rotate the distributor until that occurs. Having the distributor a tooth off doesn't mean anything because the distributor can be rotated 360 degrees until you reach the correct timing.

Gotcha. But having said that, if it did go in a tooth off it would not be correct when I rotated it to where it was before it came out. I’ll just have to redo it. 

[cda951]

1 hour ago, Chris_B said:

This concept is meaningless in the context of distributors. For proper timing, the rotor in your distributor must point at the #1 cylinder pickup in the cap at the right time. How does that happen? You rotate the distributor until that occurs. Having the distributor a tooth off doesn't mean anything because the distributor can be rotated 360 degrees until you reach the correct timing.

 

Well, that depends on how the distributor is secured. For a M10 BMW engine with a pinch bolt, that is the case, but other engines such as air-cooled Porsche 911s use a distributor with a wide slotted adjustment that limits the range of distributor rotation/timing adjustment, in which case it is possible to stab in the distributor one tooth off and still be on the edge of the timing range in which the engine starts and runs, but the timing is off. Again, not so much a thing in the M10, but maybe that's why Pablo asked the question.

[jimk]

8 hours ago, Pablo M said:

Seems it was just at the bottom. 
milk have to review the 123 installation instructions. 

Water in the oil from somewhere.  There should not be any milky oil.

[ray_]

Your spark plug cables are not in 1-3-4-2 order.

 

 

That's my guess. 

 

😎

[Pablo M]

1 hour ago, jimk said:

Water in the oil from somewhere.  There should not be any milky oil.

Sorry, autocorrect. That should have said I’ll have to review the 123 installation instructions. No milky oil or water. 
 

 

42 minutes ago, ray_ said:

Your spark plug cables are not in 1-3-4-2 order.

 

 

That's my guess. 

 

😎

It’s worth a look. Although the dizzy cap, wire organizer etc went on exactly as it came out. 

[John76]

Pablo, 

Are you sure the rotor is pointing to the #1 plug tower at TDC on the compression stroke ... not the TDC of the exhaust?

IMO the TDC mark and the 25-degree BB on the flywheel are more accurate and easier to see than the notches on the front pulley.

John

[Stevenc22]

Pablo, if the car is running, just rotate the distributor 5 degrees one direction and see if the motor smooths out, if not, try rotate the distributor 5 degrees to the other direction. You can get the timing close just by listening to the engine.

[jimk]

8 minutes ago, Stevenc22 said:

Pablo, if the car is running, just rotate the distributor 5 degrees one direction and see if the motor smooths out, if not, try rotate the distributor 5 degrees to the other direction. You can get the timing close just by listening to the engine.

He has a 123 dizzy and needs to re-synch it to the engine again.  The timing map is worthless if the zero of the 123 is not on the zero of the engine.

[tzei]

18 hours ago, Pablo M said:

Also leaking a bit of coolant from the short hose between Tstat and WP.

Check if wp bolts are tight enough.

[Mark92131]

Pablo:

 

Roll you car in gear to line up the TDC line "OT" on the flywheel with the straight edge of the viewing port in the bell housing.  Pull the valve cover and verify that both the exhaust and intake Cam lobes of #1 cylinder are not engaging the rocker arms and pushing the valves open, (this is TDC on the compression stroke).  Now is also a good time to verify that the line on the front of the cam is lined up with the oil bar.  If it isn't lined up, your cam is not installed properly and your timing will be off.  You will need to pull the upper cam chain sprocket, stick 2 bolts in the front of the cam and use a screw driver to turn the cam so the line on the cam lines up with the oil bar, then re-install the cam chain sprocket.

 

Re-install the valve cover and tackle the distributor.  I would suggest installing the 123 distributor.  If you have completed the first step, the motor is now in TDC on the compression stroke and installing the 123 distributor should be easy.  You basically can stab it in the distributor housing in any position, but I usually have the rotor pointing to the front passenger side of the engine compartment when it engages with the distributor drive gear.  The rotor will be pointing at the #1 position, install the cap and plug in the #1 sparkplug wire with the cap terminal that lines up with the rotor. Continue clockwise with #3, #4, and #2 sparkplug wires.  After the electrical connections are made, follow the 123 distributor directions to turn the distributor to get the "Green" light in the distributor housing, (this synchs the distributor to TDC for programming you advance maps).  Use your bluetooth 123 app on your phone to build a starting advance Map using the Blue Book figures for the Tii, see attached.  After starting the engine, you need to use your timing light to verify that the advance values in your map match the values your motor is producing, (say your map has 15 degrees BTDC at 1000 RPM, then set your RPM to 1000 and use your variable timing light to verify the the motor is 15 degrees)  If it is, all good, if it isn't, you need to turn your distributor body back and forth slightly until the advance is 15 degress BTDC at 1000 RPM.

 

If it is still running poorly, time to move to the fuel side, because your ignition should be solid.

 

Mark92131

 

 

[Mikesmalaga72]

Seems you have a Tii correct? Have you conducted the proper sequence procedure for your linkage prior to start up? 

This should be the initial adjustment after taking care of the leaks using new seal washers preferably etc  you mentioned.