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A Case for E10


Mark92131

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One on my Xmas gifts was a 2019 book by Jackie Jouret titled "The BMW 2002 - The Real Story Behind the Legend".  In it, she covers the production history of the 2002 with much of the information coming from the BMW Board meeting notes to clarify who did what and when, including debunking the influence of Max Hoffman on convincing BMW to build the 2002 model.  Given that some percentage of the FAQ membership discourages the use of the E10 code to describe a 2002, I felt the Chapter "Type 114, or E10" was particularly interesting and worthy of discussion.

 

According to Ms. Jouret, the shift from the early 3 digit numbering system to "E" codes, "Entwicklung" or Development codes occurred in 1965 when Bernhard Osswald joined BMW from Volkswagen and became the full member in charge of development in December of 1965.  Since 1933, BMW used the "300" series to describe some of their pre-war cars and  "500" type series for some of their larger post-war cars. They began using 3 digit type codes in the "100's" to describe their smaller cars.

 

100 - Isetta

102 - 600

107 - 700 Coupe

107S - 700 Sport

110 - 700 Cabriolet (Baur)

111 - 700 Sedan

114 - Small mid-size car, 1300/1500cc

115 - New Klasse sedan (1500)

116 - New Klasse sedan (1600)

118 - New Klasse sedan (1800)

119 - 700 LS

120 - 2000 C/CS coupe

121 - New Klasse sedan (2000)

 

No 3 digit type designation was ever preceded by a "E" and BMW never circulated an official list of Types or "E" codes.  In 1965, Osswald started the "E" series to describe cars in development and production.  Starting at E1, both E1 and E2 were reserved, but never used.  The first production car with an "E" code was the E3 Sedan.  The first Type 114 body style car with an "E" code was the Touring (E6), which internally was a Type 114K.  When the BMW Board approved the Type 114 with a 2 liter motor (2002) in August of 1967, it was referred to as the 2.0-liter Type 114.  The "E10" code wasn't applied until after it was approved for production, sometime in 1968?  The exact date of this changeover cannot be determined at this time.  Other Early "E" codes provide variants for the Type 114 models.

 

E3 - Large Sedan

E6 - Touring version of the Type 114 (114K)

E7 - Battery Powered Type 114 (1972 Olympics)

E9 - Large Coupe with 6 cylinder engine (2000 C/CS Successor)

E10 - Small build series "02" with 2 liter motor, 1968 production

E10/C - Baur Cabriolet

E10/T - Project Turbo, later assigned "E" code (E20)

E10/73 - Square Taillight update to 2002 for 1974 model year

 

So, according to Ms. Jouret, if you have a 1600, 1602, 1502, or 1802, you have a Type 114 and all 2 liter 2002's are primarily, if not exclusively are E10's with possible variant "/" codes.  For me, the 1600 and 2002 shares the same Type 114 body style, but I can't fault a person from calling their 2002 an "E10".

 

Open for rebuttal!

 

Mark92131

 

 

Edited by Mark92131
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1970 BMW 1600 (Nevada)

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Mark92131 said:

Open for rebuttal!

Prepare yourself for lots of hearsay, provincial knowledge, and one quote from a BMW rep who uses no research to defend his claims.  Mythology is difficult to refute when addressing the mystified. 

  • Haha 1

BMWCCA  Member #14493

www.2002sonly.com

1086238739_Logoforsignature.png.eb1354ab9afa7c378cd15f33e4c7fbbe.png

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3 hours ago, Lorin said:

I’m still waiting for the “It’s not a f*cking E10 !” T shirt. I might have make a run myself… 

A slight variation for me would be “Type 114, E10, 2002? Life is too short to give a sh1t”

:P

When I tell people I have a BMW 2002 (it’s not, it is/was a 1602) they say “what’s that?” and I smile, say it’s a two door saloon from 1975 and show them a picture. They then generally say “ooh, that’s nice” or “oh yes, I’ve always liked those”. That’s all that matters isn’t it?

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Phil

1975 1602 with an M42 engine.

Project thread http://www.02forum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14853#p107713

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So, according to Ms. Jouret, if you have a 160016021502, or 1802, you have a Type 114 and all 2 liter 2002's are primarily, if not exclusively are E10's with possible variant "/" codes.  For me, the 1600 and 2002 shares the same Type 114 body style, but I can't fault a person from calling their 2002 an "E10".

 

Ms Jouret, to say the least, is somewhat wishy-washy about this subject. Her “conclusion” seems based on rememberances and no authentic BMW documented proof.

 

BMW began attaching (what I call) E Code stickers to the RHD & LHD Euro cars in late 1972. It’s a shame they didn’t put them on US bound cars. Below are a number of pics of 2002 models sporting these stickers (1602 & 1802 also had them). You will note the sticker shows TYP: 114 and not E10. To the best of my knowledge BMW has never had an E10 sticker, not have I ever seen any bona fide BMW document with E10 on it.

 

E10 seemed to have been concocted in Europe during/just after the year 2002 came around, perhaps because referring to the 2002 model was getting confused with the new 2002 model year BMWs. Who knows?

 

1973 2002tii

662076767_27164381j.jpg.0e2bb353417705736c21d6683ea11a82.jpg

 

1974 2002tii

1218287020_27331991h.jpg.833fe5da1e4f66dd4b1a8a599234de58.jpg

 

1973 RHD 2002tii

1937923498_27519281a.jpg.f2dd19a1d4dcd1351553e9d26076d0d2.jpg

 

1973 2002 Targa

5088913_27960052s.thumb.jpg.6529557acae7260b1e421e57a44a888d.jpg

 

1973 2002

554948132_36425711m.jpg.e88482e89ecea9cc3653f2e6837395b1.jpg

Les

'74 '02 - Jade Touring (RHD)

'76 '02 - Delk's "Da Beater"

FAQ Member #17

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Here's my take...

 

If you look at the two page drawing on pp 24 and 25 of the factory-published "BMW Profiles, The BMW 02 Series, The Cult Car" (AKA the Orange Book), you'll see George Bertram's final rendering of what became the 1600-2, dated 4-5-65.  The upper left corner shows a BMW roundel and "114".  So it's pretty obvious that the factory referred to the design as type 114 (they hadn't adapted E codes then).  So it's perfectly correct to refer to the two door design--in its entirety as a Type 114.  It's afterwards that things become murky. 

 

Jackie and I had a discussion about the numbering system as it applies to the 1600/2002 when her book first came out.  The murkiness resulted from the factory changing over to E-codes while the 114 was still in production, and apparently applying an E code retroactively to at least some of the variants of he original carbureted two door sedan.  The Touring is one example:  originally internally called the Type 114K, when E codes came about, it became...apparently the E6.  Maybe.   But as 02 Les pointed out above, even later cars--at least the Euro models--had factory stickers designating the cars as Typ 114.  

 

This is a case of definitions:   if you define the entire run of 1600-2, 1600, 1600ti 1602, 1802, 2002, 2002ti, 2002tii, 2002 Turbo and the body variants (sedan, hatchback, cabriolet, Targa) as a single model (compare with, say a 60s full-size Chevy, that came in many body styles and engine choices), then it's a Type 114.  If you want to parse down all the variants, then there's a case for E6, E10 etc.  Your choice.

 

As an aside, for many years my license plate was E 114 until Jackie disabused me of my error, so I changed it to TP 114.  E 10 may still be available in Ohio, though 😉.

 

mike 

'69 Nevada sunroof-Wolfgang-bought new
'73 Sahara sunroof-Ludwig-since '78
'91 Brillantrot 318is sunroof-Georg Friederich 
Fiat Topolini (Benito & Luigi), Renault 4CVs (Anatole, Lucky Pierre, Brigette) & Kermit, the Bugeye Sprite

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15 hours ago, Lorin said:

I’m still waiting for the “It’s not a f*cking E10 !” T shirt. I might have make a run myself… 

What's your PayPal?

 

😁

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Ray

Stop reading this! Don't you have anything better to do?? :P
Two running things. Two broken things.

 

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When I posed the question to BMW Mobile Tradition, the response was that BMW does not refer to the '02 as E10.

 

(SO YOU SHOULDN'T EITHER!)

 

😜

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Ray

Stop reading this! Don't you have anything better to do?? :P
Two running things. Two broken things.

 

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11 minutes ago, ray_ said:

When I posed the question to BMW Mobile Tradition, the response was that BMW does not refer to the '02 as E10.

 

(SO YOU SHOULDN'T EITHER!)

 

😜

And FURTHER! Even if you are using the designation to refer to your inferior squaretail car, don't do it, because the next clown who comes along and sees your post will automatically assume his proper roundie is an E10 and call it as such, displaying his ignorance for all to see.

 

So.Just.Don't.

 

 

Ray

Stop reading this! Don't you have anything better to do?? :P
Two running things. Two broken things.

 

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