Brake options

[pklym]

I need to refresh my brakes on my m42-powered '02. Stock parts are probably just fine for my street driving needs, but, like many of you, I have a case of "while-i'm-in-there-itis." I was at first contemplating just doing the 250mm rear drum upgrade because it seems so easy, but it sounds like that might create too much rear bias. I am real comfortable working with disc brakes, and don't really intuitively understand drums, so that makes me want to convert the rears to disc, but that's an expensive upgrade just because I don't want to learn drums. 

 

Please answer my poll and let me know what you would do in my situation.

[zinz]

Street car?  Leave it stock IMO and invest $$ elsewhere.

 

Use a high quality pad & shoe, replace soft lines with SS braided ones, and change your fluid once a year, or two.  Learn how to properly adjust your rear brakes every 5,000 miles for best results.

 

Ed Z

[jrhone]

I did the volvo front and 250mm rear drums with the 19mm wheel cylinders. The brake parts are pretty cheap and for not much more than the cost of a complete brake job you get upgraded stopping power. It's not "needed" and the advantage isn't really faster stopping its more that this system dissipates heat better preventing brake fade during spirited driving. If you are not driving that hard it's not a huge difference. Good pads and SS lines will be a nice improvement. I still have not installed my SS lines...top of my list of things to do. Also I would do both the front and rear. It keeps the braking balanced. 

Edited April 25, 2017 by jrhone

[jrhone]

By the way...drums are STUPID easy....I have heard that many times..."I don't know drums"...its really really easy...Don't upgrade to rear discs just because you don't know drums.  

[M3M3]

 for a purely street car, the only advantage to disk brakes is they don't have to be adjusted.   drum brake maint is simple.  it just takes that extra 5minutes initially to learn how to do it.

 

no real advantage to braided brake lines either in this application.  replacing with NEW OEM rubber lines provides the same benefits.

 

good pads/shoes are ALWAYS an advantage!

Edited April 25, 2017 by mlytle

[arminyack]

I agree...the 250mm drums are beyond easy. Easier to change shoes on as well. That "W" spring is goooooooooone! On a side not, take a look at the size difference between stock 1600 drums and 250mm e21 ones:

 

Up front I've got Alfa aluminum calipers to replace the lil old 1600 ones....but I am right on the nary edge of clearance. Hawk blue pads are in 'em

[M3M3]

Suggestion....Lose the hawk blue pads.   Race only pad that is ancient technology and the dust is highly corrosive to wheels and paint....

 

There are so many better options out there. 

Edited April 25, 2017 by mlytle

[Son of Marty]

5 hours ago, mlytle said:

 for a purely street car, the only advantage to disk brakes is they don't have to be adjusted.   

Marshall I respectfully disagree with this, IMHO the main reason to switch to disks on a street car is to get a reliable parking brake with enough grunt to always hold on a hill  of which we have a few in western Washington. posted by a guy who had a 20% grade to his driveway,

[MatthewCervi]

8 minutes ago, Son of Marty said:

Marshall I respectfully disagree with this, IMHO the main reason to switch to disks on a street car is to get a reliable parking brake with enough grunt to always hold on a hill  of which we have a few in western Washington. posted by a guy who had a 20% grade to his driveway,

I'm going to ask a probably stupid question here, but don't parking brakes on rear discs operate as drum brakes inside the disc?  Or are you just saying that the parking brake adjusters on modern discs are easier to adjust?

[Son of Marty]

9 minutes ago, MatthewCervi said:

I'm going to ask a probably stupid question here, but don't parking brakes on rear discs operate as drum brakes inside the disc?  Or are you just saying that the parking brake adjusters on modern discs are easier to adjust?

Well some do and some jack the caliper to provide the parking brake, It's just that on the 02's BMW just missed the boat on an effective long lasting parking brake.

[jrhone]

36 minutes ago, Son of Marty said:

Marshall I respectfully disagree with this, IMHO the main reason to switch to disks on a street car is to get a reliable parking brake with enough grunt to always hold on a hill  of which we have a few in western Washington. posted by a guy who had a 20% grade to his driveway,

 

Hmmmm.  Well growing up in the Hills of the Bay Area and the fact that Germany itself has lots of hills I have to say that if you adjust your parking brake, decent hill holding capabilities are there. No need for disc brakes to park on hills. 

[M3M3]

1 hour ago, jrhone said:

 

Hmmmm.  Well growing up in the Hills of the Bay Area and the fact that Germany itself has lots of hills I have to say that if you adjust your parking brake, decent hill holding capabilities are there. No need for disc brakes to park on hills. 

Agree!  Ebrakes on drums are just as effective as disk based ones when adjusted correctly.  Btdt.  I used to live in western Washington. 

 

BTW - the ebrake on most later model cars,  like bmws.....is a drum brake inside the disk brake's rotor....

Edited April 26, 2017 by mlytle

[Son of Marty]

Yes, if you adjust them 3 to 4 times a year on a daily driver, I can think of 4 or 5 02 I've had to weld the whole parking brake handle plate back on the car due to it being pulled on so hard, the brakes on my work truck a 1998 f250 have never been adjusted and will stall the 7.3 diesel. So I guess will just have to disagree on this one.

[halboyles]

7 hours ago, arminyack said:

I agree...the 250mm drums are beyond easy. Easier to change shoes on as well

Yes indeed.  There is very little room to work inside that 200mm  diameter drum on the 1600.  Getting the top spring lodged in both shoes in can't be done by just tilting the shoes out after inserting them into the cylinder.  The hub is too close to the cylinder.  Brute force and a v-slotted screwdriver work though.

[TobyB]

I used a lot of pop rivets.  But I WAS playing rally car driver parking brake turn at a Bremerton lapping day once.

 

As to what to dowith brakes-  do what YOU want.  The stock brake is ok- I find the front hard to service and a bit fragile, so

I put Volvo calipers and vented rotors  on our cars and never think about it again.

In back, I change to 250 drums ONLY when the hubs have to come apart. As in, a hub comes loose,

or the bearings finally give out.  It's enough of a pain, with little enough gain, that I wait for that.

I DO find that the 250 drums need to be adjusted much less often AND that I can get better shoes for them.

 

As to hawk blue pads on the street, that... sounds like a nightmare.  Even on the track,

cold they are very hard on rotors.  I still use them on the 2002 race car because they are good enough

and I bought a case of them for some odd reason when they were very, very cheap indeed.

 

fwiw,

 

t