engine and drivetrain 1966 BMW 1800 TI Alpina

[jgerock]

I just looked at your pics. Very nice!

Love the NC State inspection sticker from the '68/69 year, '69 NC tag and the USA tag in the trunk (along with the manuals, spare parts and that temperature gauge in the dash).

Please share some pics under the hood when you get a chance!

[JsnPpp]

Holy Crap!

Everything about this is totally kick ass! From the magazine articles, to the license plates to the spare parts to the ALPINA air can to the actual alpina paperwork to ...

It doesn't stop! You have a serious time capsule here just as it is. I agree - just clean it and get that motor running and leave it. Please don't over restore it.

Since it is a family car it must have some serious memories. Get your wife's grandfather to tell us some stories please!

If I could clap on the Internet I would do it.

Thank you for sharing it!

~Jason

[alpinaguy]

As mentioned in my earlier post Pictures are worth a 1000 words and a 1000 words would not even begin to describe what you have here. With all the paperwork and parts treasures, remarkable condition of the interior and what can be seen of the body the 1800 ti is definitely worth restoring. However the first thing you MUST do is get it out of where it is being stored. Hopefully the underside is in as nice a condition as the top. Judging by the interior it probably is since the moisture does not appear to have damaged the interior. The wealth of parts is another reason to get it indoors and in a climate controlled environment. The Marchal lights alone are worth quite a bit. Good luck with this score. Would like to see the complete inventory of parts when your able to sprawl them out on the floor to see what all you have. Lucky Bastard!

[69coronet440]

I can assure you that this car will not be molested. I like big hp muscle cars but the history and provenance of this car sounds like it needs to stay all original. I am a car guy and love turning wrenches, I would love to just clean it up and get it functional again but if for some reason I can’t, I’ll make sure it gets into the hands of someone who can.

A few other things he mentioned was that Burkard Bovensiepen completely disassembled the engine to balance the pistons, rods, and crank. He said with the head off you could spin the flywheel with one finger. He also did some head work to bump up the compression. Burkard also replaced the Solex carburetors with Webbers and the 4 speed transmission with a 5 speed which was also disassembled to remove any burrs from the gears. I think some suspension work and brake work was also done by Alpina. He told me about Burkard calling him and asking if he wanted to be there when they dyno’d the engine. He was there for the dyno test but he couldn’t recall the numbers. He said the night he went to pick up the car from Alpina there was a terrible rain storm, I said “that’s to bad, you couldn’t test the car out”. He said “oh yes I did, that thing was like driving on rails”.

I asked her to get some pictures of the engine but it is crated up in the garage so that may not be possible. Hopefully in the next month or so I can get up there myself and look everything over.

[designpunk]

man......the story gets even better !!

glad you are going to have the opportunity to save it.

what part of the country would this specimen end up living?

keep us updated.

thanks, jim h

[stone02]

Hi,

the history is amazing. the comments

from the others are encouraging. the

pictures complete the package.

my response is to tell you to get it

to protected non-rodent place, i see

mouse signs in the trunk stuff.

make every attempt to keep it as

original as possible. i wish i had a

car like this. i recently lost a targa

convertible to another driver and

i don't think i will find another like

it. keep us informed about the progress.

i don't want to sound like a vulture

but if you do decide to sell it i would

like a chance to talk to you.

good luck with that GEM

stone

[69coronet440]

(nt)

[Conserv]

I can assure you that this car will not be molested. I like big hp muscle cars but the history and provenance of this car sounds like it needs to stay all original. I am a car guy and love turning wrenches, I would love to just clean it up and get it functional again but if for some reason I can’t, I’ll make sure it gets into the hands of someone who can.

A few other things he mentioned was that Burkard Bovensiepen completely disassembled the engine to balance the pistons, rods, and crank. He said with the head off you could spin the flywheel with one finger. He also did some head work to bump up the compression. Burkard also replaced the Solex carburetors with Webbers and the 4 speed transmission with a 5 speed which was also disassembled to remove any burrs from the gears. I think some suspension work and brake work was also done by Alpina. He told me about Burkard calling him and asking if he wanted to be there when they dyno’d the engine. He was there for the dyno test but he couldn’t recall the numbers. He said the night he went to pick up the car from Alpina there was a terrible rain storm, I said “that’s to bad, you couldn’t test the car out”. He said “oh yes I did, that thing was like driving on rails”.

I asked her to get some pictures of the engine but it is crated up in the garage so that may not be possible. Hopefully in the next month or so I can get up there myself and look everything over.

Congratulations! This is the kind of car, and the kind of history, we all dream about! As you, and others have already suggested, clean it up gently and get it running and driving. Record, with photographs and a written inventory, everything you have. Take a trip to visit your wife's grandfather -- if he's not coming this way soon -- and "interview" him with a video recorder: get the entire story on film.

Then, and only then, decide whether your heart's in a restoration; as you know, a good restoration is a long and expensive process. And if it's not, as you suggested, find someone whose heart is dedicated to it. Given the family relationship, the value of this car may be greatest in your and your wife's hands. But if it is running, and has this terrific history carefully documented, you may be able to transfer the lion's share of that value to a new owner.

Best of luck. It's really beautiful!

Steve

[bjbarbieri]

Beautiful car. Please save it. I'm in the process of saving a '67 2000 tilux that is in much worse condition. These NK's are getting harder and harder to come by, and the 1800 Ti is among the best. Good luck, please keep us updated, and be sure to document your progress.

[rey949]

It appears you have a real find there. Restoration or whatever that means to that car would be a tragedy. Keep it as it is and store it in the proper place. Put it back together with what you have there and get it running. If you change it at all you will not have the car you have in those pictures.

I am sure you have experienced the same feeling if you have ever "restored" a car. Once you change things it is not the same car. I refer to the Theseus Ship paradigm.

I recently restored (nut and Bolt) a unique car. Even though we took painstaking care in using the "Original" equipment, after we finished we realized no mater how hard we tried we changed it.

Clean it up make it look as nice as you can with what is there and you will get more out of it than if you spent a fortune trying to make it perfect. It is already perfect. Put it back together and leave it alone. Store it properly.

Enjoy the car and the stories.

Also, if for some reason you want to sell it let me know I have the perfect place for it.Good luck

NK POWER!

Rey

[jgerry2002]

Nothing wrong with restoring it if you don't go crazy with every last nut and bolt. A little patina is a good thing.

Leaving "as is" means its not much more than a big rusty pile.

Ask the original owner where he thinks it would be today if he kept it in good shape.

I thought of that when restoring my '74 tii (Yale's old car... bmwcca folks know what im talking about). I've changed it in some ways, but not radically. I think its in ways that the original owner would appreciate.

And I drive it and enjoy it. Track events too.

Get that 1800ti back to the way it was plus leave a bit of patina. You have a great story and some documentation there.

[rey949]

Nothing wrong with restoring it if you don't go crazy with every last nut and bolt. A little patina is a good thing.

Leaving "as is" means its not much more than a big rusty pile.

Ask the original owner where he thinks it would be today if he kept it in good shape.

I thought of that when restoring my '74 tii (Yale's old car... bmwcca folks know what im talking about). I've changed it in some ways, but not radically. I think its in ways that the original owner would appreciate.

And I drive it and enjoy it. Track events too.

Get that 1800ti back to the way it was plus leave a bit of patina. You have a great story and some documentation there.

I beg to differ. If that is an original ALPINA ....that car if brought back to running will NEVER be a RUSTY PILE.

So what part do you "restore" and what part do you "Leave as is"?

Once you start where do you stop?

I think if it were a 74 Tii or a regular 1800 do whatever you want, but not that car....

Rey

[alpinaguy]

The restoration to me would only be repainting it to PRESERVE the body so no further rust takes hold. I would leave the engine bay, door jams, trunk and inside of doors alone. This would be the extent of the "RESTORATION" IMO.

The interior of this example seems to be pristine according to the photos. Maybe a new bezel if it could be sourced for the speedo would be in order. Other than that I would leave the rest alone unless any other bits need a refurbishment. Lets face it, this 1800 ti is part of Alpinas early history in tuning BMW's it would be nice if it were preserved for future generations of BMW/Alpina enthusiasts. Again my opinion only. This is all up to the new owner. Good luck in what ever decision you make on it's future. I'm in Oregon if the new owner is in Southern Washington and needs any assistance. I would certainly love to see this car!

[Slavs]

Wow ! You're lucky. Anything Alpina is rare, but what you have is very early Alpina(Alpina Rare). I believe Alpina's first involvement with BMW was with the 1800 and 1800ti. You'll have to read Alpina history on their webpage. The tach gauge looks stock 1800ti, but the housing is not. It may very well be Alpina. That housing brings the tack in closer to the driver where it can be easier seen. The water temp gauge may also be Alpina. Your car looks to be "Granada Red", but faded. My 69 1600 pictured here is Granada. The rear deck has some rust, but the rest of the car is clean. I would clean up the body, repair all rust and repaint with a good quality single stage paint (Dupont has the Granada color code in Chroma Premier single stage. It lasts). I agree, leave everything else alone. These cars are pretty easy to disassemble and assemble. Just keep track of everything, label, catalog etc. You mentioned 5 speed gearbox. If you have the early 5 speed close ratio gearbox, that only makes the car that much more rare ansd special. Get that car out of there. In Mustang muscle car talk you have a fastback that was taken to Carol Shelby and converted to a Shelby GT, and documented.

[vinceinIL]

Wow....this is indeed beyond cool! I totally agree with the thought of trying to keep it as original as possible. Only the second NK I would be interesting in buying and making room in my garage for, makes a perfect fit with my collection of tis (Alcan Rally 2002ti, 318ti CS) and other BMWs but I suspect lots of others are interested in it too. Feel free to contact me if you think of selling it. So I'll be happy with my BMWs, old Dodge trucks, and a few oddballs.

Justin, Yale's car was not very original when he got it, and wasn't when I got it. If someone restored it to perfection, he'd be spinning in his grave. That you've done so much to it already and still drive it and track it, I'm sure he'd be proud and smiling where ever he is. Imagine the column he'd write about it now!

vince

vstrazzabosco@yahoo.com