I know where the 02 got its round tail lights.

[Zak]

Yep, no doubt about it.

Edited February 15 by Zak

['76mintgrün'02]

Was that the inspiration for the round headlights too?

[Zak]

18 minutes ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

Was that the inspiration for the round headlights too?

Nope ! I don't think so. But, the VW Type 34 Karmann Ghia  has tail lights nearly identical to the 02. There is nothing closer.

 

As for headlights, The 02 borrowed them from the 700. That's the way I see it. The 700 Coupe has got to be the coolest Anti-BMW BMW. It is a BMW for all the cool reasons a modern BMW is not. I should have grabbed one when I had a chance.

Edited February 15 by Zak

[Tommy]

@Zak Nice picture you chose! That 700 belongs to my friend and mentor in racing and BMW as a hobby.

[jgerock]

According to Simon Glen’s excellent reference book “Volkswagen Type 3”, the Type 34 Karmann Ghia Coupe was under the development leadership by Ghia’s Luigi Segre and the images were penned by Tom Tijarda and Sergio Sartorelli.   The public release was at the September 1961 Frankfurt Auto Show, the IAA.

 

As with many older vehicles, design features were used across multiple brands.

[Zak]

9 hours ago, Tommy said:

@Zak Nice picture you chose! That 700 belongs to my friend and mentor in racing and BMW as a hobby.

Your friend has good taste. That car looks the period; the color, racing stripe and wheels fitted with period style Dunlops. The simplicity, spartan character and diminutive size of this economy  car is everything BMW is not these days. The 700 was marketed as the most basic transportation for the masses, but with excellent style, designed by Giovanni Michelotti.  It was BMW's first monocoupe with proven engineering and mechanicals, compliments of BMW's Chief Engineer, Alfenbeck. And, It's the car that saved BMW from economic ruin during the post war years. Too bad BMW ditched the economy car market and moved away from the concept.

Edited February 15 by Zak

[HBChris]

The 3200CS was also shown at the September 1961 Frankfurt Auto Show, it has the round lights and the first Hofmeister Kink which also debuted on the 1500 at the same show.

 

[Mike Self]

In September 2017, I wrote a Roundel column that explored some of the design origins of NK and also type 114's--including the 114's round tail lights.  I corresponded with a BMW AG designer...and found out some interesting things.  Here are a few quotes from the column:

 

"I always assumed—logically--they (the round tail lights) were adapted from the Bertone styled 3200CS coupe, introduced in late 1961 and built in penny numbers until late 1965.  Both the coupe and the BMW 1500, the first Neue Klasse sedan, were introduced at the Frankfurt Auto Show."

 

"According to David (my designer friend from BMW)  it was more of a coincidence. “There is enough evidence in the design archives to show that those (taillights) on the project 114 (the 1600-2) are not directly traceable to the 3200CS when it comes to the creative process.   It is usually one thing to see a connection between production cars, and another thing to create those cars.” 

 

"Interestingly, round tail lights were not initially applied to Project 114.  There’s an un-dated photo of what appears to be a body mockup (no interior discernible and probably no running gear) displaying a very coupe-like rear panel—concave with a corresponding overhanging trunk lid—and horizontal tail lights. They look very much like slightly smaller versions of those on the 2000CS coupe..."

 

"But according to David, the round tail light inspiration came from our side of the pond.  Think back to American cars from the late 50s/early 60s, especially Ford and Chevrolet.  Other than the teardrop tail lights on the ‘59s, every full-sized Chevrolet, plus the Corvairs and Corvettes, had multiple round tail lights from 1958 until well after the 1600-2 appeared. 

Same with Ford.  Beginning with their full sized cars as early as 1952, Thunderbirds in 1954 and Falcons in 1960, round tail lights predominated— up to six on 1958-60 T-Birds and large pairs on Falcons,’61-on Thunderbirds and Galaxies."

 

Yeah, it surprised me too, but it's logical...after all, the wrap-around beltline molding, first on NK sedans and then on 1600/2002s is a direct crib from the first series Corvair design...and Ford returned the favor in the 80s with an unmistakable Hoffmeister Kink on period Thunderbirds.

 

cheers

mike

 

 

[Zak]

49 minutes ago, HBChris said:

The 3200CS was also shown at the September 1961 Frankfurt Auto Show

Wow ! Now, those tail lights appear identical to the ones on the VW. It must have been a design fad in 1961.

[popovm]

8 minutes ago, Zak said:

Wow ! Now, those tail lights appear identical to the ones on the VW. It must have been a design fad in 1961.

I am no industrial design historian but I would guess the clean round tail light trend was a design evolution (or maybe just a related collective conscience design trend worldwide) of the late 1950s rocket influenced tail lights. Ford's evolution below. They get slowly less embellished. Europe's seem to be cleaner out the gate. 

 

1959 Ranchero tails

 

1961 Galaxie tails

 

1964 Galaxy

 

 

[Zak]

2 hours ago, popovm said:

I am no industrial design historian but I would guess the clean round tail light trend was a design evolution (or maybe just a related collective conscience design trend worldwide) of the late 1950s rocket influenced tail lights. Ford's evolution below. They get slowly less embellished. Europe's seem to be cleaner out the gate. 

 

I'm aware, but the very specific tail lights on the 02 are nearly identical in design, shape and size to the ones on the VW and BMW 3200CS, as noted by Chris.

Edited February 15 by Zak

[TobyB]

Critically, the center image below is from...

wait for it...

 

1949.

 

So, yeah...

 

And if you tear apart a VW type 1, 2 or 3, you'll find more than a few parts that will bolt onto a BMW.

 

Common suppliers, wot?

 

So I suppose, I'd say, "I see where the 2002 round taillights evolved from"

 

t

 

[popovm]

1 hour ago, Zak said:

I'm aware, but the very specific tail lights on the 02 are nearly identical in design, shape and size to the ones on the VW and BMW 3200CS, as noted by Chris.

Nearly leaves the door open for a lot of interpretation. Design, legal or otherwise. You opened the can of worms around a bunch of pendants. You only have yourself to blame. 😁 I’ll readily argue the merits of insets, size of the chrome rings, alignment of the colors in the tails to differentiate a design. Check the attached pics.  It’s easy to pick out two cars from the same point in time and say, “that one aped that one!” but have you seen all the CUVs running around today? All so similar. Context is important. Not coming for you, by the way. You have a point. It’s just an interesting topic to me. 
 

 

 

sources: 

 

Karmann Ghia Type 34 - bid now

GETYOURCLASSIC.COM

---

This Karman Ghia Type 34 was originally delivered with an electrically sliding steel sunroof.

 

https://silodrome.com/bmw-3200-cs/

 

[visionaut]

I likes a nice pair of roundies..

 

https://www.theautopian.com/todays-taillights-the-round-kings-the-bmw-2002-and-ford-cortina/

[Zak]

18 hours ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

Was that the inspiration for the round headlights too?

Ha ! Ha! Ha !