Accusump?

[Dudeland]

This is another thing that has been in the back of my mind.  I have an IE baffled oil pan, as well as a windage tray.  Just want to give the ole four banger a fighting chance.   I see that they have trick valves that control the refilling and dispensing of oil like the one below based on oil pressure. 

 

Overkill??

 

 

Canton EPC Pro Electric Valve Kit for Accusump, 20-25psi | Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies

WWW.PEGASUSAUTORACING.COM

---

The Accusump EPC Valve Kit makes operation of the Accusump even easier. When oil pressure drops below 15 psi, the accumulated pressurized oil in the Accusump is delivered to the engine.

 

 

 

[John76]

How do you drive your "ole four banger"?

Have you ever had oil pressure problems?

IMO ... overkill for a 50-year-old stock daily-driver street car.

But, if you have $$$$$ invested in a tricked-out, high performance motor... then what's an extra $300??

 

[Cabbage Fumes]

In a race car especially, I choose the manual valve style because when the car has been sitting a few months, I can open the valve and pre-pressurize the block before starting it. The electric version is good for when you are too distracted by everything that's happening to notice your oil pressure just tanked and it's too late now to do anything about it. The point is, a daily wouldn't be a good candidate. In a race car, it can buy a few more moments to shut things down, which could mean the difference of a spun bearing, compared to new windows installed.

[tzei]

Yea got one w/ el.valve. A bit hard to see but lays on left frame rail.

Edited September 4, 2023 by tzei

[TobyB]

I use one in the 2002 race car, as one class I (sometimes used to) race in

limited modifications.

 

The electric valve IS a trick bit, because it will allow full flow from the

accumulator to the main galley but prevent the accumulator from filling too fast.

 

Here's why you want this,

as me letting the car run low on oil at Spokane one year demonstrated:

You're flying down the main straight, with full pressure of 60.  You pitch the car into a long, sweeping

left- hander, and uncover the pickup, which starts sucking air.  Pressure drops below what it was

on the front straight, and the accumulator starts oiling the main galley for you.

You hold that attitude for almost 30 seconds.  The accumulator pressure drops from 60 to 20 during this, but

keeps oiling.  It has an air-spring bladder in it, so it has a pretty wide range as it unloads.

Now you have an extra quart and a half in the pan, and come out of turn 2.

And get hard on the throttle.  The extra oil's now covering the pickup, but the accumulator pressure

is low- and with an open valve, that would hold your entire system pressure low as the accumulator filled.

But the electric valve only diverts a small amount of refill volume to the accumulator,

letting the main galley come back up to 55 or so, fully oiling the engine, yet

refilling the accumulator slowly as you work your way through

3, 4 and 5, kicking in briefly in 6, refilling through 7 and 8, and then oiling the engine 

as you take 9, another sweeping left- hander, which uncovers the pickup again.

As you come piling out of 9 on 2- and- a half- tires, oil drifts back over the pickup,

pressure comes up again, and you repeat the cycle 18 or 22 times.

 

Yes, this is hard on the engine.  But it's a lot LESS hard on the engine than running without

oil FLOW, which is what would happen without the Accusump, and I seriously raced an entire

race like this, watching the oil pressure gauge more than the track, taking odd lines, and otherwise

acting like an idiot who checked his oil level with the accumulator partly discharged.

 

Because the other half of the Accusump is that it puts an air spring into your oil system, and now, oil

volume is directly affected by oil pressure.  100 psi at startup?  You'll pressurize that accumulator to 100,

and that'll feed it an extra half- quart.  Leaving the pan a half- quart low.

Drop to 10 psi at idle?  It'll dump everything into the sump, leaving you a quart over. 

Run 18 laps at Spokane a quart low?  After that, I had half a quart of air on the oil side of the

accumulator, from all the frothed oil that went in and out of the accumulator, and had to 

blow that out of the thing through the engine.  Then VERY gently restart it....

 

Back to valve choice: my race car came with the electric valve, and I probably would never have

bothered to figure electric valves out if it hadn't.  I like it for the slow refill feature.  It really makes a difference when

you're relying on it too much.  You shouldn't need it almost ever, but if you DO need to run on it, 

it really does work.  It also refills whether or not it's energised, which is an odd feature.  It will slowly

refill itself even if it's switched off.  

 

As FC notes, you need separate control over either valve.  I ran a manual valve on my street/track

car, because of the 'filling' 'feature'- the pressure relief valve was sticking when cold

in one of the engines I had in it, and I didn't want it putting 150 psi into the accumulator. 

I forgot once, and oiled down my passenger compartment...

On the race car, the accumulator's electric valve is on a toggle on the dash- I flip it off on the cool- down lap,

and make sure to hold the revs high enough to build 60 psi in the Accusump.

 

WAYTLDR- they're different, each has its benefits.  Both require some attention.  As does the Accusump

accumulator itself.

 

t

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by TobyB

[Dudeland]

6 hours ago, TobyB said:

I use one in the 2002 race car, as one class I (sometimes used to) race in

limited modifications.

 

The electric valve IS a trick bit, because it will allow full flow from the

accumulator to the main galley but prevent the accumulator from filling too fast.

 

Here's why you want this,

as me letting the car run low on oil at Spokane one year demonstrated:

You're flying down the main straight, with full pressure of 60.  You pitch the car into a long, sweeping

left- hander, and uncover the pickup, which starts sucking air.  Pressure drops below what it was

on the front straight, and the accumulator starts oiling the main galley for you.

You hold that attitude for almost 30 seconds.  The accumulator pressure drops from 60 to 20 during this, but

keeps oiling.  It has an air-spring bladder in it, so it has a pretty wide range as it unloads.

Now you have an extra quart and a half in the pan, and come out of turn 2.

And get hard on the throttle.  The extra oil's now covering the pickup, but the accumulator pressure

is low- and with an open valve, that would hold your entire system pressure low as the accumulator filled.

But the electric valve only diverts a small amount of refill volume to the accumulator,

letting the main galley come back up to 55 or so, fully oiling the engine, yet

refilling the accumulator slowly as you work your way through

3, 4 and 5, kicking in briefly in 6, refilling through 7 and 8, and then oiling the engine 

as you take 9, another sweeping left- hander, which uncovers the pickup again.

As you come piling out of 9 on 2- and- a half- tires, oil drifts back over the pickup,

pressure comes up again, and you repeat the cycle 18 or 22 times.

 

Yes, this is hard on the engine.  But it's a lot LESS hard on the engine than running without

oil FLOW, which is what would happen without the Accusump, and I seriously raced an entire

race like this, watching the oil pressure gauge more than the track, taking odd lines, and otherwise

acting like an idiot who checked his oil level with the accumulator partly discharged.

 

Because the other half of the Accusump is that it puts an air spring into your oil system, and now, oil

volume is directly affected by oil pressure.  100 psi at startup?  You'll pressurize that accumulator to 100,

and that'll feed it an extra half- quart.  Leaving the pan a half- quart low.

Drop to 10 psi at idle?  It'll dump everything into the sump, leaving you a quart over. 

Run 18 laps at Spokane a quart low?  After that, I had half a quart of air on the oil side of the

accumulator, from all the frothed oil that went in and out of the accumulator, and had to 

blow that out of the thing through the engine.  Then VERY gently restart it....

 

Back to valve choice: my race car came with the electric valve, and I probably would never have

bothered to figure electric valves out if it hadn't.  I like it for the slow refill feature.  It really makes a difference when

you're relying on it too much.  You shouldn't need it almost ever, but if you DO need to run on it, 

it really does work.  It also refills whether or not it's energised, which is an odd feature.  It will slowly

refill itself even if it's switched off.  

 

As FC notes, you need separate control over either valve.  I ran a manual valve on my street/track

car, because of the 'filling' 'feature'- the pressure relief valve was sticking when cold

in one of the engines I had in it, and I didn't want it putting 150 psi into the accumulator. 

I forgot once, and oiled down my passenger compartment...

On the race car, the accumulator's electric valve is on a toggle on the dash- I flip it off on the cool- down lap,

and make sure to hold the revs high enough to build 60 psi in the Accusump.

 

WAYTLDR- they're different, each has its benefits.  Both require some attention.  As does the Accusump

accumulator itself.

 

t

 

 

What size accumulator do you have? 1,2,3 qt. 

Is it plumbed through the oil filter housing? If so are you using a Tii or 3-series filter housing?
Is it T'd in before or after the oil cooler?  ( I think you said that you had a Setrab 9 row) 

 

Thanks

[Son of Marty]

It would be cool if you could plumb a small line teed to the oil feed to your turbo a small flow of oil through the turbo bearings as a anti-soak back pump to prevent your bearings from cokeing up just like the big boys do.

[TobyB]

2 hours ago, Dudeland said:

What size accumulator do you have? 1,2,3 qt. 

Is it plumbed through the oil filter housing? If so are you using a Tii or 3-series filter housing?
Is it T'd in before or after the oil cooler?  ( I think you said that you had a Setrab 9 row) 

 

Thanks

The race car got a 3 quart- it uses a pancake takeoff on the stock oil filter housing,

goes through a 1- way valve, and I THINK it's tee'd off before the cooler.  I thought I had

a 13 row in that car, but it could be 9.  I last counted it in 2006, when I squashed it against

the inside T9 wall and had to replace it.  AN10 on this.

On the street car, I'd used a 2 quart, drilled and tapped the oil filter housing, and didn't

use a backflow valve.  It worked well enough that way.  I think I used AN10 for that, too.

But 8 would have been ok, too.  

t

 

 

[kbmb02]

Well, for another data point:

 

18 years of M10/2002 racing, the last 10+ building race engines for customers, rental race cars, etc - not one car/engine has an accusump, and I have a low failure - or even problem - rate. I’ve never run the track at Spokane (sounds fun),  though I have run through NASCAR T1-T2 at AutoClub Speedway.

 

I DO run a fancy oil pan with baffles and 3 trap doors around a boxed pickup.

 

(Side-bar: I’ve seen a handfuls of competitors - maybe two handfuls - miss a race because they inadvertently dumped oil all over their car due to misuse or failure of the unit/valve. It’s mayhem when it happens on the grid….)

 

I have a couple of take-out accusumps available, PM if interested. -KB

Edited September 5, 2023 by kbmb02

[TobyB]

When I bought the 2002 race car, Mike had gone through several engines and several oiling system configurations-

and what was on it when he sold it was working.  So I ran it for at least a few seasons unmodified, since, as they say, 

'don't mess with success' 

Which turned out to be good adviSe, since I learned a lot about oiling from watching others' 'adventures' in the mean time.

And lots of forum chatter.  

 

I completely agree that the Accusump's a bandaid- but it's also bearing insurance if something goes squiffy.

I don't have one on the E30 race car- stock pan with baffles- and it hasn't ever had an oiling problem...

but it's also slower.

 

So yeah, I think it's a matter of experience and personal preference...  Eventually, I'd like to dry- sump it.

But that's an adventure for a different economic time...

 

t

 

[kbmb02]

1 hour ago, TobyB said:

Eventually, I'd like to dry- sump it.

But that's an adventure for a different economic time...

 

t

 

I've been learning and documenting while rebuilding this one...

 

[gracer]

I have a manual valve 3 quart Accusump on my race car.  Like Toby, I saw

the oil pressure go down in the left hand corners.  The accusump takes care of the problem.

[uai]

i was also thinking about an accusump, but atm my oilpan for the e30 oilpump is sufficient for my tires

Edited September 5, 2023 by uai

[Preyupy]

The byproduct of an engine that is tilted to one side is the oil has an easy time running up the side of the block.  That and how much oil you can get to run up the front timing cover when you step on the brakes.  This is not a problem I have ever had on street cars but it is common on the race cars.  An Accusump is a viable band-aid but the best fix is a properly designed oil pan with baffles/trap doors/windage trays and scrapers if you have to stay wet sump.  The best is obviously dry sump.  The absolutely best part of an Accusump is the ability to pressurize the oil system before you start the engine. 

 

Just for your information I have found a couple of the electric valves that were used in Accusump systems over the years that worked more like one way valves.  When they were OFF oil would not flow FROM the Accusump but if the engine was running and making more pressure that what is stored in the accumulator then oil would flow INTO the accumulator.  Conversely when the valve was ON oil would flow FROM the accumulator but would NOT flow BACK into it.  I am not sure where these valves came from but we did need to replace them.  

[Dudeland]

2 hours ago, kbmb02 said:

 

I've been learning and documenting while rebuilding this one...

 

That is soooooo pretty. Dang.