Fuel injection, what do I have ?

[deschodt]

15+ y ago when I acquired my 2002, it had the stock carb with a defective secondary. Not much power... The mechanic I used at the time  convinced me to go EFI with bits from other BMWs, and I let him. I never really knew what I had as a result... I cannot really complain as the car came back to me much more powerful  and has been rock solid for 15y and never missed a beat. The throttle was always an on off switch though due to his fabricating a funny linkage but I got so used to it that it's no biggie... 

 

That being said, I'm reaching a point where a) the engine runs a little off balance (vibrates more, even on new plugs) b) there's virtually nobody close by that has a laptop/software old enough to control that specific old ECU, and c) I'm questioning what fuel injectors I have and if one may be lazy...  d) always wondering if  should go back to a fun carb setup. I'm gonna take the injector rail apart and try to flow fuel to check the pattern and flow quantity soon but I was wondering if you might know what I have...

 

I seem to have a custom fuel rail and 4x Bosch injectors # 0280 150 470...  There's also a small circled number (970), wondering if it's significant or just a batch number?  I googled those #s and I always come back with a 100% similar looking Porsche 996 / 986 injector !! LOL ! Is that even possible? Maybe, who knows what the guy did and he was a Porsche mechanic.  I did find cheap replacements on ebay so I bought them as a punt, same part # but different circled # (hopefully just a batch #)... Hopefully same flow... If not not great $ loss ($25)

 

Please look at the pic and let me know if anyone here uses those or if you know if the circled number matters, when the part # is the same... 

 

I'm also reconsidering the whole setup, maybe a nice carb (which?) would be fun for induction noise and maybe a bit more power - but mostly less dependence on antique software, but the car was also converted to electronic ignition - not more distributor etc, everything is controlled by the same ECU... so reverting it all back would involve buying a new distro, carb, a throttle mechanism refab - sounds pricey vs newinjectors and maybe just a newer brain someday !   please share what you know if possible 😉 

Edited November 6, 2022 by deschodt

[2002iii]

It's quite possible the injectors came from a  Porsche, doesn't really matter same Bosch style injector used in BMW's. What you need to find out is the flow rate of the injectors. 

 

More pictures of the motor and information is needed. Looks like you could have an intake and fuel rail from a 1984-85 e30 318i.

 

Who is the ecu made by?

[tech71]

Those are clearly pulsed injectors so what you dont  have is K Jectronic  off an E21.

Probably L jectronic  from an 84-85 318i. 
Do a compression check before condemning your FI

Also check any accesable  connections and grounds related to your FI

The signals flying around are in very, very small voltages, a bad connection or ground  can cause problems. Sometimes just removing connectors and reinstalling can fix signal issues

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by tech71

[tech71]

3 hours ago, deschodt said:

but the car was also converted to electronic ignition - not more distributor etc, everything is controlled by the same ECU...

Hold on,you have an M10 engine in there with no distributor?

You have to give us more to go on than 1 pic of an injector

[AustrianVespaGuy]

Yes, more pics please!  Would especially like to see what ECU you have in there.  If it's Megasquit, great, I'll help you get it running perfectly! If not, then let's put a Megasquirt in it, and I'll help you get it running perfectly!  More info/questions:

Those are indeed Porsche injectors that are rated to flow about 22lbs/hr @ 3 bar fuel pressure.  They're only the 2-pintle design though, which is fine but not as good as the later 4-pintle injectors.  Wouldn't worry about that unless you are already changing injectors for some other reason.

No distributor means you're *probably* running wasted-spark ignition, which is great!

How's your cold idle; know if you have a idle valve on there?

Look at your crank pulley, is there some sort of a trigger wheel on there? If no distributor, I'd expect so, and another sign that you're in high cotton with a great EFI setup!

More pics, more info please!

EDIT: Oh yeah and the circled 970 is not important, only the main part number 0280150470.

Edited November 6, 2022 by AustrianVespaGuy

[AustrianVespaGuy]

Also, I worked for YEARS on coming up with a really good throttle linkage setup on my car with that same manifold/TB, so if you're at all unhappy with yours, here's how to do it right:

 

[jimk]

1 hour ago, AustrianVespaGuy said:

22lbs/hr @ 3 bar fuel pressure.

To fully describe, 229cc/min @ 3bar, high resistance 12 ohm.  Important to know resistance when setting up the ECU.  Nothing wrong with the selection.

Edited November 6, 2022 by jimk

[rstclark]

Stay connected with the AustrianVespaGuy  He's got the whole subject under control. Don't downgrade your car to a carburetor and a distributor Follow the directions for the throttle linkage and you will be very happy with the results

It's well worth the effort to refresh you systems

[tashakes]

As @tech71 above stated, do a compression test, when I bought my 02 it came with a E21 FI setup, I was never able to make it run right, always ran rough.  I did a M42 swap and sold the FI setup (and included the engine and tranny), and the guy I sold it to told me the head gasket was bad, so that was the issue.  Looks like you have a more advanced system, try to save it.  Good luck. 

[d.hitchcock]

I'm running aftermarket ecu/electronic ignition (look ma, no dizzy!)/EFI.

No way would I go back.

[Tommy]

Yeah, the single picture tells you have EFI, but that you knew already. Explanation is good but few more pictures would tell much more.

Pics of inlet manifold, throttle body, ecu, coil, crank/cam sensors. That's about it for the group here to tell 99% of what you have.

[TobyB]

Quote

  please share what you know if possible

 

I know that it's not possible to tell you anything much more than the above without  more information from you.

 

t

has a MIC-3 in a box somewhere

A TEC-III in another box somewhere else

2 Megasquirt-1's (one assembled, one still in its baggie) in a third place.

A couple of MicroJolts and EDIS modules in a fourth place...

 

and a STACK of old laptops, starting with about winblows 3.1, ending at 10pro, not to include Vista...

[rstclark]

I'm going to run a Haltech Elite 1500  for  L Jetrtronic injection with 42 LB injectors  and Turbo   It May be Overkill but if provides knock sensor  ( insurance)

 If you are just running injection a Megasquirt  will do the job

Again Hang with the Austrian Vespa Guy

[deschodt]

Wow, I started something.. I'll go grab pics and answer Q now that I see all that.. I was just gonna report on what I did so far..

 

I've never worked on EFI before so started by listening to the injectors with a long screwdrivers, tick tick...  took the fuel rail and injectors off and cleaned everything. Noticed the hoses to the fuel rail were cracking so I bought new ones and installed them. I thoroughly cleaned all injectors and O rings,  realized they weren't going back in the fuel rail as easily when clean... used ATF to lube them, plop..  I summarize here because I lost tools had a few leaks, etc.... RESULT - engine runs smoother for sure ! the idle was so so before, more solid now ! And safer without cracked hoses. 

 

I took the car on a quick test to pick up Kid #1, no leaks. Got bold and went to pickup Kid #2 much farther, started smelling something burning...Not gas though,  plastic like.. quick hood opening, checked for gas leaks from driver side (only), saw nothing, pressed on... figured i must have dropped a screwdriver or something heating up..

Stopped at Kid school, looked from other side, LOL !  Well it's not like I was using the washer bottle before... It fell off against the manifold, I must have disturbed it..

 

 Car runs much better so something I cleaned helped... spare injectors still coming, thank you for confirming part # is enough for the same flow ! Now i have 6 spares !!  The Computer is a DTA - used very rarely apparently and soon out of serviceability in my area, only one shop can talk to it..  I'll take pictures of the rest

Edited November 9, 2022 by deschodt

[deschodt]

So before you laugh, this was done 15y ago and the paint on the intake and valve cover looked a lot nicer then... I started brushing it off as it was flaking...  Hope those pics answer some Q... 

 

The throttle linkage and return spring is ghetto fabulous. 

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by deschodt