No Oil Flow, Nvm Oil Pressure

[BarbaratheIrish2002]

Evening Folks,

 

I recently bought a 1976 BMW 2002 that's a tired but honest old girl (pulled out of a Sacramento field). She's been off the road since 1995, and as I dig through her, I'm beginning to find multiple issues. I'm piece by piece getting through them, and I'm at the point where it's now turning over...finally. 

 

Before I get started on electrical side of things, get spark and dump a little 2-stroke down her neck to see if she'll fire off, I wanted to make sure I was getting decent oil pressure. I pulled the oil pressure switch, stuck on a gauge and turned her over. It cranks fine and to my ears sounds healthy. But I got a 0PSI reading. I pulled the gauge and left the switch housing open to the air, cranked it, and expected to see a gush of oil- nothing. I pulled the valve cover gasket, cranked it, no oil in the oiling bar (obviously the case with my previous try, but I just wanted to see). Between all this cranking I pulled the plugs (also look uniformly good), liberally sprayed the cylinders with WD-40 and gave the top end a coating of 20W-50 where necessary, so the engine isn't getting hurt. The bottom end is bathed in oil. And she has oil in her. Plenty of it. It looks good. No milkshake. It's still oil, not half gas, half oil. The engine to me looks very clean, just not oiled. I've pulled the fuel line and have it going into a plastic container so I'm not washing the cylinders with gas every time I'm trying to crank it.

 

The longest I cranked was approx. 10 seconds (won't go any longer because I don't want to burn out my starter). 

 

The obvious thing to say is it's the oil pump. But I think if it was the oil pump, the previous elderly lady owner, who parked this thing 27 years ago, wouldn't have noticed and driven it until it blew up from oil starvation. The thing was wired backwards- red negative and black positive. So I'm just thinking someone has done a bad job re-building it, either installed a bad oil pump or the oil pump is installed incorrectly.

 

Long story short, I could use some help on how the oil pump works- is it chain and sprocket off the crankshaft? Is it lobe driven? If the engine is out of time (what I'm beginning to think), would the oil pump not be working?

 

It appears the oil pump replacement is a large job. If it needs to be done, so be it, but maybe some of you folks out there who are a lot more knowledgeable on all things 2002 could send me in the right direction. 

 

Much obliged. 

[Mike Self]

3 hours ago, BarbaratheIrish2002 said:

how the oil pump works- is it chain and sprocket off the crankshaft? Is it lobe driven? If the engine is out of time (what I'm beginning to think), would the oil pump not be working?

An M10 oil pump is driven by a chain off the crankshaft.  Since the crankshaft is always turning, an out-of-time ignition system won't affect the oil pump's operation at all.  But before dropping the pan and delving into pump replacement, try this:

1. Unscrew the oil filter (be prepared for a bit of oil dripping out), put a rag where the filter was and crank the engine while watching for oil emerging from the pipe onto which the filter is screwed.  Oil from the pump goes directly to the filter.  A clogged filter could keep oil from reaching anything downstream of the filter--and that's every lubrication point in the engine.  If still no oil comes out...

You may have to go into the innards (drop the pan) and check to make sure the pump sprocket hasn't come off the pump, the chain hasn't broken, the pressure relief valve isn't stuck etc.  But I'm betting on the above, especially considering the car's been sitting for so long--and you have no idea how long the filter was in place even before the car was parked. 02 oil pumps rarely wear out or fail so hope this is an easily-solved problem.

 

Here's a breakdown of what the oil pump assembly looks like:

RealOEM.com - Online BMW Parts Catalog

WWW.REALOEM.COM

---

BMW parts 1502-2002tii 2002 Lubrication system/Oil pump with drive

 

Let us know whatcha find--and welcome to both the 02 fraternity/sorority and the FAQ.

 

mike

[eviction_party]

When I’ve replaced a cylinder head, it took a lot of cranking to get oil out of the oil pressure switch hole. I pulled the filter first, and cranked until oil came out of there, reinstalled the filter (remember fill the filter with oil first!) and then was able to get flow at the head. It’s unlikely you’ll see much pressure before the engine actually fires, but you can see flow out of the hole. 
 

so, what mike said— check the filter first!

[andyleonard]

As above. You need to crank a lot more.

[Schnellvintage]

Remove the spark plugs and let her spin freely and faster.  It should build up something to read.  

 

Regards,

Matt

[Son of Marty]

Like Mike said drop the oil filter, one of the 02's I was bringing back from a long nap had the same problem it turned out to be a petrified oil  filter, the oil stayed in it so long the paper element had turned hard.

[TobyB]

Yep- take the oil filter off, spark plugs out,

and crank for 30 seconds.

I bet it takes 15 at most to make a nice big mess.

Then reinstall a fresh filter and fresh oil, and try again.

 

Old oil is bad news.

 

Pour oil into the cylinders.  Throw the WD- 40 into your neighbor's pool, it 

will do more harm than good, by far.

 

You're on the right track.

 

You WILL see oil pressure if you crank long enough.   And that's

good practice.

 

t

 

[Dudeland]

Perhaps a new filter as full of oil as you can make it.  I am not sure if there is a way to backfill the pump from the oil filter.  I am overly anxious about cranking dry motors.   

 

The real answer is like Mike said, drop the pan and make sure that it is all cool. 

[BarbaratheIrish2002]

Hi everyone, 

 

First off, thanks for your responses. 

 

I want to round out this thread for the sake of completeness and for any future bodies who find themselves here reading through.

 

I removed the oil filter and cranked for 30 full seconds. Let the starter cool off, then cranked for another 30 seconds.

 

Absolutely nada. 

 

It appears- as Mike says- that perhaps either the pump sprocket has come off the oil pump, the chain is broken or the pressure relief valve is stuck. Won't know until I can drop the pan and I'll do that with the engine out on a stand as the head gasket is, as it turns out, also blown. Now I know why she was sat 27 years ago!

 

Watch this space as I tumble down the hole of uprated cams and carbs and intakes even though I'm telling myself I'm not going to do that while she's apart!

 

Also, does anyone in Northern California have recommendations for a good machine shop that won't absolutely ruin me financially to do what should be a pretty straightforward work to the head for the head gasket job?

[Hans]

Boy, I just cringe at the thought or turning it over so long with no oil pressure. Hard on crank and cam.

[jibarnes]

Pull the rocker cover and check the chain?

[Son of Marty]

If it's the new style pump with the single nut it is likely that it came loose, when you have the engine out and the pan off do pull a main and rod bearing cap to check for damage.

[Hans]

If you insist on turning over more, pour oil over cam and rockers and somthing into plug holes. Just a little

[M3M3]

On 8/6/2022 at 1:16 PM, TobyB said:

Pour oil into the cylinders.  Throw the WD- 40 into your neighbor's pool, it 

will do more harm than good, by far

This...x1000.

WD40 is not a lubricant.  WD stands for Wirer Dryer.  It's best use today is for cleaning because it is a great solvent.

 

Use real oil in the cylinders, and poured on the valve train, when cranking a dry engine.

 

Hopefully with all the dry cranking you have done there is not more damage than there was before.

Edited August 11, 2022 by M3M3M3

[TobyB]

I've torn apart motors that have been sitting for 30 years.

 

The bearings are still wet. 

(the cam lobes and cylinder walls are not, of course,

which is why you pour oil in the plug holes and grease

the cam)

 

If the plugs are out, you could spin the thing on the starter for an hour 

and nothing bad would happen.  It just doesn't put ANY load on the

journals, and they're designed not to hurt themselves anyway.  

I mean, shit, look how long the brake pedal linkage lasts, and it's 

inevitably rusted almost solid.

 

Quote

 Now I know why she was sat 27 years ago!

 

yeah, that's almost always the case, isn't it?  

 

What makes you say the head gasket's bad?

(not saying it isn't, just wondering how you diagnosed it)

 

t