68 1600

[Conserv]

7 hours ago, tjones02 said:

@rcf925 Thanks for sharing the ad for this car here. @Conserv and I chatted about it earlier this week. Steve and I were commenting on the juxtaposition of the padded dash and badge still above the taillight trim wondering what the production date was, or, how close it was to the Jan ‘68 requirement for padded dashboards in the US... I saw the VIN tag showing 1562248 and thought of asking BMW Classic the car’s birthdate, but thanks to @BritshIron contacting the seller we have a birthdate of, amazingly, January 1st 1968! Thank you BritshIron!

 

Now, this is making me want to look up the VIN breakdown in the parts books. This may very well be one of, if not the first padded dash 1600!

 

Off to the parts info...

Please check the parts books, Tom. Thank you! I guess we should have, and could have, done that previously!

 

I do believe that BMW started phasing in the U.S.-spec all-padded dashes before the drop-dead date of January 1, 1968. I believe I’ve seen both November and a December U.S.-spec 1600-2’s with the padded dash. (These, of course, would largely be 1561xxx cars.)

 

The VIN decoder offered by the BMW 2002 Car Club of Columbia shows VIN 1562154 as the first U.S.-spec 1600-2 manufactured in the 1968 calendar year. And I just happened to have the window sticker for VIN 1562173, manufactured January 3, 1968, according to BMW Group Archives. The window sticker (first photo below) is about as close as we’ll likely come to the original window sticker for VIN 1562248!

 

(@Tahoedon’s original-owner 1600-2 is VIN 1562947 and was manufactured February 2, 1968, one month after the 1600-2 we’re discussing.)

 

And, as a bonus today — because I just received it yesterday — here’s a February 1967 Car and Driver road test of a 1966 1600-2. Assuming the usual 3-month lag in magazine article publishing, typical of the 1960’s and 1970’s, the test was probably conducted around November 1966. And, assuming the car is in the U.S. for the test, it’s a very early car, perhaps August 1966, or even earlier.

 

What a gorgeous car! Although we all know how I personally feel about white sidewalls on ‘02’s — even when they are factory equipment... ??

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Conserv

[Lengrep]

Anyone been in touch lately?  I’m nearby. And drooling. 

[BritshIron]

I spoke with him several times yesterday, by email. His name is Erick Goycochea. Here's the last thing he wrote me, below. He admits that English is a second language for him, so he's a little shy about stretching out his vocabulary when writing. Might be best to talk to him by phone. I can tell he's proud of the car, may be overly ambitious about price, but I believe otherwise just a nice guy with an old BMW.

 

Erick wrote: "English is my second language so I don't have all the words to express it sometime.  I'm happy to send you more pictures but I don't know exactly what part do you need if you have pictures of the part you want I can take them. Gearbox it's original like everything in the car. The only mechanic work on the car was Vanik over Bavarian Motors in Sun Valley and he told me that the engine it's not a TI but it has high-performance features. goes beyond my expertise.

This car has a really good story, I rescued from the car garden in Cuyama the car belongs to a mechanic Gayland friend of Tommy (see YouTube)

     he stored the car there for few years so I bought the car from Gayland and rescued from Cuyama. Car was in a mint condition of course with some imperfections because of all the years but it drives so nice. 

Sending you some pictures of the rescued mission

 

Please let me know if you have any questions. 

 

Best Regards, 

 

Erick"

 

You gotta admit, this is a car with a story! Best of luck. Aloha, Robert

 

[Lengrep]

I can’t figure out how to contact him...  PM me?

[BritshIron]

Done. By the way, when Erick refers to "Tommy" in his note above, it may well be Tom Merkel, who started The Cuyama Historical Car Garden. RPS

[tjones02]

Well, I dug through the pdf of the white BMW Mobile Tradition parts books for the VIN of when padded dashes were implemented in 156xxxx ‘68 1600s, and... Didn’t find what I was hoping for. While there’s VINs for when Euro cars got it in ‘72, there’s no VIN for when US cars stopped using chrome dashes, nor when US cars started getting padded dashes. Bummer! Though, I will keep hunting another time. I have access to a set of orange parts books at work and microfiche at home that I have yet to set up, fire up, after purchasing from an old boss last year. The hunt will continue.

 

What I did find though is when the real end of the first generation of 1600-2s ended, the 150xxxx ‘66 “BMW16oo” as I call them because they, as the one in the Car and Driver road test article Steve shared, they have tail and dash badges that read BMW16oo. So, the last VIN to use the dash badge was 1508071. And my own 1508028, born Oct 20th ‘66, which has all the features of the rest of the ‘66 production including both BMW16oo badges. I’d say that even after being built after the usual production year end of July and next year startup of September production, that generally, all ‘66 produced 1600s that got the BMW16oo badges when new are unofficially ‘66 1600s. Even though my 1508028 is registered as a ‘67. ?

 

 

[tjones02]

@BritshIron I love Tom Cotter’s Barn Find Hunter series, both his books and the Hagerty YouTube series! Though he loves Datsun 510s, I haven’t seen enough vintage BMWs on the series.

[Mike Self]

3 hours ago, tjones02 said:

While there’s VINs for when Euro cars got it in ‘72, there’s no VIN for when US cars stopped using chrome dashes, nor when US cars started getting padded dashes.

I have searched for this also, and would be surprised to find a US-specific 1600 (156/157XXXX VIN) built after 1 January 1968 with chrome on the dash, or even shiny windshield wiper arms and blades, as that was the date the new anti-glare Federal regulations took effect.  I was actually surprised to find Bob's ("British Iron's) very early (Sept 67 production) 156XXXX VIN car with chrome dash trim.  I had always assumed the factory quit that when they began a separate VIN series for US-bound cars, anticipating the Federal regulations that would take effect for the 1968 model year, but not actually be required until the beginning of the 1968 calendar year. 

 

But as they did with other parts, BMW just "used up stock" and made the change when the new parts became available.  Wonder if they ran out of chrome trim dashes before they ran out of calendar year 1967? Or when the first batches of no-chrome dashes (made especially and only for US cars) first arrived at the factory.  We need some examples that were produced in Nov and Dec '67 to see if they have chrome-trimmed dashes or not...

 

mike

[Conserv]

36 minutes ago, mike said:

I have searched for this also, and would be surprised to find a US-specific 1600 (156/157XXXX VIN) built after 1 January 1968 with chrome on the dash, or even shiny windshield wiper arms and blades, as that was the date the new anti-glare Federal regulations took effect.  I was actually surprised to find Bob's ("British Iron's) very early (Sept 67 production) 156XXXX VIN car with chrome dash trim.  I had always assumed the factory quit that when they began a separate VIN series for US-bound cars, anticipating the Federal regulations that would take effect for the 1968 model year, but not actually be required until the beginning of the 1968 calendar year. 

 

But as they did with other parts, BMW just "used up stock" and made the change when the new parts became available.  Wonder if they ran out of chrome trim dashes before they ran out of calendar year 1967? Or when the first batches of no-chrome dashes (made especially and only for US cars) first arrived at the factory.  We need some examples that were produced in Nov and Dec '67 to see if they have chrome-trimmed dashes or not...

 

mike

+1

 

And, Mike, I have not yet seen a September 1967 U.S.-spec 1600-2 without a chrome-trimmed dash. And I’ve certainly seen a few October 1967 U.S.-spec 1600-2’s with chrome-trimmed dashes.
 

(Tom, Does your VIN 1560847 — an October 1967 car — have a chrome-trimmed dash?)

Owners of September through December 1967 1600-2’s — let’s call them the “early 1968’s“ — what have you got:

 

1. Chrome-trimmed or fully-padded dash?

2. Two-spoke or three-spoke steering wheel?

3. Silver-painted or black bezel for instrument cluster?

4. Driver’s outside mirror at leading edge of door, or near rear of front vent window?
5. Triangular punch-outs in trunk bulkhead or no punch-outs?

6. What else?

Please provide your car’s VIN and manufacturing date.

 

My notes show VIN 1560890 had a mirror at the leading edge of the driver’s door and VIN 1560954 had a chrome-trimmed dash and a silver-painted bezel on the instrument cluster. Both of these were October cars and I’m assuming the features I note are original, if only because they’re rare!

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Steve

 

[BritshIron]

The "Search" feature on Bring-A-Trailer is a pretty interesting place to get old information on old cars. That said, it's not much help in answering Mike's question relative to the exact time the US spec cars arrived with a padded dash instead of chrome.

 

1. This first link is a car that was made in April, 1967, delivered to Hoffman's organization, but sold new in San Francisco at German Motors sometime after May in 1967. I find this pretty interesting. Terrific details on this car. 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1967-bmw-1600-2/

 

2.Here's another 1967 1600-2 that was both made and delivered to Hoffman in April, 1967.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1967-bmw-1600-3/

 

3. Here's another 1967 example. Looks like Tom Jones evaluated this car on FAQ back when it was for sale. Nice car!

https://bringatrailer.com/2012/02/19/museum-ready-9k-mile-1967-bmw-1600-httpforums-bimmerforums-comforumshowthread-phpt1455851/

 

4,Here's a European 1968 with chrome dash, manufactured September 17, 1967 and delivered to Switzerland September 25, 1967. Not that much help on USA chrome dashes, but at least it gives a baseline for the European models. 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-bmw-1600-8/

 

5. Both these links below are my car. 1560679. Made September 28, 1967 and delivered to Hoffman on October 5, 1967. Still trying to find another US spec car that's earlier with chrome dash. 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-bmw-1600-6/

https://bringatrailer.com/2015/06/15/1968-bmw-1600-2/

 

Aloha, Robert

[tjones02]

@Conserv Yes, my 1560847, Oct 20th ‘67 car has a chrome dash.

 

@mike It’s not a matter of BMW using up stock of chrome dashes as we must remember that the Euro market cars kept using them until the Model71 mid ‘71 styling facelift.

 

I believe BMW started phasing in padded dashes as stock became available, But we haven’t found whether there’s an exact VIN. Steve, what post October ‘67 cars have you seen with padded dashes?

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, tjones02 said:

 

... I believe BMW started phasing in padded dashes as stock became available, But we haven’t found whether there’s an exact VIN. Steve, what post October ‘67 cars have you seen with padded dashes?
 

+1

 

Tom,

 

I haven’t been officially tracking these features, but VIN’s 1561983 (below) and 1562051 — both December 20, 1967 cars — appear to have fully-padded dashes. We need more data points, corrected, where possible, for post-factory dash replacements.

 

But, yes, I would not be shocked, for instance, to find that padded dashes appeared (first shipment), disappeared, and then re-appeared (second shipment, or whatever). Or not!

Below: @JerryC’s former car, VIN 1561983. The seats have been recovered but the dash appears to be original.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

(My notes, based on our previous discussion, show VIN 1560847 as manufactured on October 9, 1967, and transferred legally from BMW AG to Hoffman Motors on October 17, 1967.)

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Conserv

[BritshIron]

You all may already have this data point, but here's 1562154, built in 12/67, with a padded dash:

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2012/04/19/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1968-bmw-1600-2

 

Also, here's a nicely done compilation on dashboard variations done by Andrew Adams of Adams Autosport, and edited by Steve:

https://adamsautosport.com/information/tutorials/bmw-2002-dashboard-variations/

 

Maybe this FAQ thread preceded or happened in close time proximity to the Adams Autosport compilation link above:

 

Here's an FAQ thread that addresses Shawn Kampmann's 1560562. So, this is the earliest "chrome dash US spec" car I have seen:

 

I ran across this little gem. Not really too germane or updated for the 1600 cars, but it seems this "expert" tried to tease 2002 evolution:

https://www.02restoration.com/bmw-2002-history/bmw-2002-a-technical-history/

[Markster]

Enjoying this!!!

[Conserv]

On 5/17/2020 at 2:11 PM, BritshIron said:

 

... Here's an FAQ thread that addresses Shawn Kampmann's 1560562. So, this is the earliest "chrome dash US spec" car I have seen:..

 

Robert,

 

So... the use of separate “VIN series”, e.g., 156xxxx, to denote U.S.-spec cars began with the 1968 model year. The shift to U.S.-spec-only VIN series was dictated by the U.S.’s demand for greater safety and emissions controls on U.S.-imported cars, along with a need for greater clarity in enforcing those regulations. Stated differently, the regulations were of little effect if any old Euro-spec vehicle could be “disguised” as a U.S.-spec model — with sealed-beam headlights and an MPH speedometer — and imported.

 

The 1968 model year began on or about September 1, 1967. For the model 1600-2, the new VIN’s began with VIN 1560001, probably manufactured approximately September 1, 1967 (maybe a bit later). September 1967 production of U.S.-spec 1600-2’s, thus, ran from VIN 1560001 to, perhaps, VIN 1560650. I’m guessing VIN 1560650 because your car, VIN 1560629, was manufactured September 28, 1967. Tom’s VIN 1560847 was manufactured October 9, 1967, so the last September 1600-2 was after your car (or it was your car, I suppose, theoretically) and before Tom’s car.

 

To be clear, I have never seen a September 1967 1600-2 that originally had anything other than a chromed-trimmed dash. The chrome-trimmed dash simply carried over from the 1966 and 1967 models. So VIN’s 1560001 through 1560650 — the latter, my guesstimate — had chrome-trimmed dashes. I would venture that the fully-padded dash did not exist in September 1967. As Tom pointed out above, since the chrome trimmed dash was continued on Euro-spec cars until April 1971, there was no need to use up an inventory of chrome-trimmed dashes. BMW likely started installing the fully-padded dashes on the U.S.-spec cars as soon as the dashes arrived. This was certainly after September 1967 but, I believe, before December 20, 1967.

 

But again, 100% of September 1967 dashes were chrome-trimmed versions, as we see on Gary’s VIN 1560364, manufactured September 19, 1967 (photo below). This car is now beautifully restored, but the only photo I had of the original dash is below. A rare Mark IV A/C unit — probably installed when the car was new or nearly new — eliminated the glove compartment, with its chrome trim.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve