02 Prices / Values

[Slavs]

The values for 02s have gone up 10x in the past 10 years. Sure, this is nowhere near the crazy vintage Porsche market. But, the 02 was a mass produced car intended to compete with the VW Beetle when introduced back in 1966. The prices remained low, even as VW prices began to climb. I believe that Munich produced nearly a million 02s, including all models. The junkyards were littered with them not so long ago. Many of the $500 junkyard cars were in better shape than many of the cars people are now selling for $15,000. Like the real estate market, I believe that the rising prices have more to do with speculation and the so called "Flippers". And, that's too bad. These cars have become overpriced and are headed the way of the Porsche 912s and 356s. Most of their owners current owners don't even dirty their finger nails, much less work on their own cars. And then there is the "tii" and Alpina factor. Alpina nomenclature in particular is thrown around and used to increase value, And then there is the "tii" syndrome; a mid-production 02 with all types of odd gizmos and features slapped on to the otherwise clean 02 lines with a fuel injected engine borrowed from the Neu Klasse Tilux of 69. The US spec "tii" like most post 68 US spec 02s look burdened as they seem forced to wear all the crap mandated by US safety - insurance regulations etc. Why are some of you guys buying into all this propaganda and paying so much for a mass produced car designed for the masses ? Does this madness have an end ?

[Simeon]

I paid $4,000 AUD for mine. 11 years ago.  

 

I have spent... lots on it.

 

It might be worth $25,000 now if I wanted to sell it. The fact that I might just come out even is a sign that the market is over inflated but in my mind it’s still a $4 grand car. 

[joebarthlow]

Propaganda? Look a little harder at cars for sale. Lots of good deals out there, including mine I bought last year. I have plenty of room for restoration/preservation projects and not be under water on the car. The BMW 2002 still remains and affordable European classic sports sedan, more so than many of its competitors (Alfa Romeo, Porsche). If you want to be in a more affordable range, go buy a 320i. They have many of the mods I see people doing to 2002s already. you can buy 3-4 e21s for the price of a 2002. Not everything is about big auctions and Bring a Trailer results. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by joebarthlow

[ray_]

Nice lawn.

 

[NYNick]

I've heard this whining before in the Porsche world. Wahhhh I thought I was the only one who loved 02's? Wahhhh other people are starting to like them too! Wahhhh parts are so expensive now. Wahhhh people are buying them all up now and driving up the prices. Wahhhh they're only old guys who don't even work on their cars and get their hands dirty. wahhhh wahhh hey you kids, get off my lawn!

 

You should be encouraging people to love these cars, not complaining that they do.

Edited October 7, 2018 by NYNick

[02Pilot]

The end of the madness is this: just drive the damn thing. Let the speculators and other assorted douche nozzles do their thing while you have fun wrenching on and driving the everloving piss out of your car. A fun car is worth exactly nothing to me if it's sitting in the garage; it's worth a hell of a lot more than the book value out on the road.

[NYTransplant]

2 hours ago, Andrej said:

The end of the madness is this: just drive the damn thing. Let the speculators and other assorted douche nozzles do their thing while you have fun wrenching on and driving the everloving piss out of your car. A fun car is worth exactly nothing to me if it's sitting in the garage; it's worth a hell of a lot more than the book value out on the road.

I don't plan to sell mine... ever... so value is of no value to me ?.  I agree with Andrej, driving it is the reason it has value.

 

[mac]

OK  

 

Rant over. 

 

Mac. 

[chargin]

12 hours ago, Slavs said:

These cars have become overpriced and are headed the way of the Porsche 912s and 356s.

 

12 hours ago, Slavs said:

. Why are some of you guys buying into all this propaganda and paying so much for a mass produced car designed for the masses ? Does this madness have an end ?

 

Have you ever driven a 912? Designed as the low budget brother of the 911 felt like crap when I drove a "Perfect" one. 

 

2002's were a great value for a fun budget sedan that didn't drive like a pig, so now you have all these people with an emotional bond to a car that cost 15% of a show level Porsche.

 

Sure the $500 driver is rare but keep in mind a used Scion is $9000 so a $5000 2002 might not be that bad.

 

As far as Tii is concerned most Motorhead weekend Cars N Coffee guys only know Tii meant Cool faster model with no idea of why. I think most people that bought a Tii wanted a little faster and drove it as such that's why there's probably less around due to attrition of wear and impact. Tii's only started as 1 in 10 that were produced so now there seems to far less than 1 in 10 on the road judging by the 02 events I've been to this year. Monterey had many more Alpina's then Tii's (3 out of about 150 cars), Ireland Engineering open house had 1 Tii out of 20 plus cars that were there.    

 

And don't even start on Round/Square...…..?

 

For me part of the joy of the 02 was that it was like a VW mk1 GTI, meaning you mod how you like, not for resale value. I don't know what mines worth, I don't care, I'm not planning on selling it.

 

But one thing is for sure, Haggerty knows what it's worth to me to replace 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PaulTWinterton]

12 hours ago, Slavs said:

Why are some of you guys buying into all this propaganda and paying so much for a mass produced car designed for the masses ? Does this madness have an end ?

 

You have focused on the 02.  Look at other brands and similar models from that era. Alfas, Renaults, Fiats, Cortinas, etc. have all increased significantly in value.  Reality: the collector car market is strong.  Some people love cars like others love art.  Furthermore today's money doesn't buy you what it used to.  Any product or service! 

 

Don't blame the buyers.  Blame the economy.  

 

You insult my tii.  It was a hit for all the right reasons back in the day, and still has a lot of that caché.  My "odd gizmos and features slapped on" tii still loves 4K-all-day at 27mpg.   And those numbers are low if you ask some tii owners.  

 

12 hours ago, joebarthlow said:

I just switched to Hagerty for insurance. They wanted to value my car at $23,000. I said, "no, more like $13,000." I will sleep better for doing so.

 

Huh?  Not if it's stolen or seriously damaged.  Not likely you'll find another rust-free car for $13K. 

 

 

 

[Redtail]

3 hours ago, chargin said:

 

Have you ever driven a 912? Designed as the low budget brother of the 911 felt like crap when I drove a "Perfect" one. 

 

There must have been something wrong with the 912 that you drove if it felt like crap. At the factory Porsche set up the suspension on the 912 a couple inches higher than the 911 so the 911 would be faster in the twisties - a correctly set up 912 can sometimes out perform a 911 on a really tight road due to better balance with less weight in the rear. I currently own a 912 and a tii and I love both, but to be totally honest the 912 handles better than my 02.

[joebarthlow]

46 minutes ago, PaulTWinterton said:

Huh?  Not if it's stolen or seriously damaged.  Not likely you'll find another rust-free car for $13K. 

 

I see great deals around $13K pop up locally often. I'm comfortable with mid-range valuation.

[Guy Cocquyt]

Interesting discussion. I bought my 1970 automatic 02 "hulk" 5 years ago for $1200 any then spent $10,000 getting it back to a decent daily driver. This one was relatively rust free and had a decent running gear so it was worth putting back together and I did 80% of the work.

I did try to sell it recently. Started at $15k, no calls, $12k no calls. Finally at $10k I started getting lots of calls but no serious offers. People were looking for something around $2k that they could spend 5 years and $10k more putting back together like I did.

A couple of lookie- looks said too bad it's an automatic. (I was thinking too bad you are assholes).

My point is these cars are perfect for wannabe mechanics like me, they are fun to drive. You use all your senses when you drive these and you are constantly tinkering with them to keep them running.

My wife doesn't understand this crazy fixation with my 48 year old "German mistress" but she has learned to accept it, and yes to the fellow who said these high prices keep "the wife" on side with our active addiction to these cars.



Sent from my STH100-1 using Tapatalk

[NYNick]

The thread is about 02's, but 912's were never 'designed to be the low budget brother of the 911'. Quite the opposite. The 912 was Porsche's reaction to the negativity surrounding the introduction of the 911 after the retiring the 356. The 912 outsold the 911 like, what? 4 to 1? The general public hated the change from 356 4 cylinder and bathtub body to (a much more expensive) 6 cylinder with a sleeker redesigned body style. Plus, they had a ton of leftover 356 engines to get rid of. The 912 fit the bill and peoples budget, even though they were still pricey.

 

Price wise, the 02 was a good competitor to the 912. Back then, it was common to see 02's and Porsches on the track. The 911's ate the 02's for lunch, but the Tii was a game changer for BMW and ate the 912's. Gotta tell ya; we 912 guys wanted Tii's. I know. I was one of them. They were faster, but by then, the 912's were history and the 911 was the car to own.

Don't let anybody tell you anything different. 912's spin just as easily as 911's. It's the EXACT same body with a different engine and some suspension bits. Very much like our base 02's and the Tii's. Same chassis, different bits.

 

The guy who owns the 02 and the 912 got my attention. Great stable of four bangers. Learn to drive a slow car fast and you'll learn to drive a fast car faster. But I bet he'd trade both for the same year 911 and Tii. They're better driving and handling cars.

 

I'd love to have another 912. I've owned 2.  But I'm not buying. I've got a 911 and a Tii. Best of both worlds.

 

[jp5Touring]

I started to look for roundie with a sunroof and hopefully little rust about a year ago. I wanted to spend 5k and quickly realized I would need to spend 10k for a solid 02.  I've had two sold out from under me to local buyers. People in Cal. prefer not to sell cars to people in Michigan when someone down the street wants the same car.  BAT has definitely influenced prices, I'm now hoping to spend under 15k for a decent one.  The plan was/is to spend too much money on building my own.  But now 25k 02's done well seem to be a better value then most 15k 02's that are for sell now.  It's a struggle on what way to go cause I'm a "built not bought" kinda guy.