Transmission(s) CR 5sp and Others......

[andyleonard]

What’s left of my memory remembers going to the Chevy dealer in Marin County in 1975 and buying a close ratio Borg Warner T50 5 speed  (from a Monza?) over the counter for $700. We bandsawed the bellhousing from a 2002 in the appropriate place. found a clutch disc, and got it installed … only to discover that, while it worked just fine, the feel of the thing was so rattly and…well…Chevy…that it was rejected as an alternative to the pricey CR5 speed from Alpina, which at that point was the only 5 speed we knew about for a hot 2002. They do/did use them in MG V8s though. And it is designed for road racing. Can’t remember a thing about the fitment except that it was long.

No clue if that gearbox exists, in what, what ratios, etc. But it might work as a race box for 175HP if you’re going through gearboxes. If you look under some of the multi-million dollar Maserati sportsracers at Monterey Historics  you’ll find an easily repairable Alfa 5 speed.

I had someone go through my Super T10 every season. If I wanted to change the ratio of a gear or 2, he could do that for a few bucks. Trying that sounds like a really bad plan with the numbers and parts shortages being thrown around for the CR5.

Edited January 14, 2018 by andyleonard

[TobyB]

Quote

Aptly nicknamed "The Rockcrusher".

That was the M20.  It got panned at the time because 1st is very high (2:1?)

and the low helix on the gears (to increase strength) made a horrible noise.

It also had bad 0-60 times because of  the tall 1st. 

All 4 ratios would work on most racetracks

with a 3.9 or 4.10 diff...  and you'd use 1st on most tracks.  It would not be good for a series with standing starts.

 

There was a lighter- weight (6 oz, maybe) M22 that had the same ratios,

but is a lot cheaper, if not easier to find. It also had higher- helix quieter gears.

I never got so far as to try to fit one.

 

I also have a t5 out of a turbobird that has pretty good ratios.  They're a bit big, tho, the t5

 

t

 

[zinz]

Really? I always thought the M22 was straight cut and The Rockcrusher. 

 

So says here on the interwebs (must be true) ?

https://www.hotrodhotline.com/magical-muncie-four-speed#.Wlu5i0FMGEc

 

"The M22 has higher-nickel-content gears of straight-cut design. It uses much the same gear ratios as the close-ratio M-21, but it can handle much more abuse. An M22 retains less heat due to the straight-cut gear design and the lack of thrust that helical-cut gears create. An M-22 holds up well. The downside is that it tends to make noise. It will rattle at low rpms and whine at higher rpms. The M22 is called the Rock Crusher. “Dump the Rock Crusher,” hot rodders say. People think all Muncie four-speeds are Rock Crushers, but they’re not."

 

?‍♂️

[TobyB]

Oh, it's possible I got the numbers backwards, then- M21 is the quiet one, and the M22 is noisy...

 

The gears weren't exactly straight cut, If I remember- it was a low helix angle, though...

 

Either way, the ratios mathed out pretty well.

t

 

[zinz]

I developed hard shifting habits in that GTO... my next car was a '69, 2002.  I destroyed 2nd and 3rd gear synchros within the first couple months. ? This forced me to learn double clutch technique that I still use today. 

[Mark92131]

The 235/5 CR Getrag was also an option in the Jensen Healey.  Possibly one of their forums could turn up the parts you need to rebuild yours.

 

http://www.jensenhealey.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=246

 

Mark92131

[markmac]

I actually thought of that this morning, good call.  Guessing though that a lot of these have been picked off by bmw folk, still, worth a look.

[Henryn02]

Check eBay there is a current listing for some 235 parts from Uruguay.

[Conserv]

27 minutes ago, HENRYNBMW said:

Check eBay there is a current listing for some 235 parts from Uruguay.

 

I bought a used 235/5 from this seller 3 years ago and he certainly appeared to be on the up and up. 

 

But the prices for these NOS parts will quickly add up to a big number!  This seller probably had at least 4 complete 235/5’s, as that’s how many I seem to have seen sold, including mine.  I’ve noticed the prices on the parts and complete units have doubled since I purchased mine 3 years ago.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Conserv

[mike472]

I just bought one of Metric Mechanics Sport OD 5 speed trannys and he makes 1st and 5th gear taller besides his other mods.  It helps close the gap between 1st and 2nd gear.  This give you four useful lower gears that mimic a close ratio box and a taller 5th gear for easier highway cruising.  I have a 3.90 rear in my car so I think this will work well.  This is nice in a street/track car.  His 4 speed might be better for a dedicated track car.  I didn't really look at the details on the ratios in his 4 speed.  Both of those options are a whole lot less money then trying to resurrect one of the original CR 5 speeds.

[markmac]

Not so sure about that really, both of the MM options are $4000 + core deposits ($700 and $500), I emailed them through their website a week or so ago to ask about both - not a peep (note to MM, don't have a contact source on your website and then not follow up with potential customers....just sayin).  I am confident that I can either find a rebuilt/good 5 sp CR box or rebuild my own for same or less.

[mike472]

You might want to call.  I’ve gotten Jim Rowe on the phone a couple of time and he’ll talk your ear off about everything he does in his tranny rebuilds.  It’s worth a call.  He does a lot of work to beef up the trans to besides just replacing stock parts. I know he reworks the syncros and uses tapered roller bearing besides some other mods he makes.   I don’t think Jim is the kind of guy who likes to respond by email.  

[Henryn02]

According to BMW historic parts portal a lot of the parts are still available. 

[markmac]

I am working on putting together a CR 5speed gear set.  I will know more in the next couple of weeks whether or not the gears can be serviced/saved.  A friend of mine is the parts manager at BMW Monterey, I had him check that for me, from a 'gear' standpoint, the only gear available is 1st gear and there are 12 of those left (period, that's it, no mas).  As you would expect, they aren't a bargain, my cost is about $750 for that piece.