engine and drivetrain Kugelfischer Oil Change?

[PaulTWinterton]

I keep my engine oil extremely clean, but when I cracked the KFish banjo bolt to check the oil level I noticed that the oil at the fitting was VERY dirty.  Almost like graphite. Yikes.  Should I be worried?

 

I don't understand the Kfish lubrication system.  Anyone shed some light?

 

Lastly, anyone know if the hex-key bolt at the bottom of the KFish is a drain plug?

 

[SydneyTii]

That's weird I thought it used the engine oil so it should be the same colour??

does the injection manual on here mention a drain plug, I need to look as well!

[lilmo]

I uses engine oil, under pressure through the black flexible line.  Pull the line & clean (solvent/air).  Pour some MMO in the fish via filler hole, & go.  Check again after a short drive.

Edited June 1, 2016 by lilmo

[Preyupy]

The black pressure line runs from the oil filter bracket to the K-fish pump there is a drain/oil return line from the bottom of the pump to a fitting on the side of the block right behind the pump

[jimk]

Just curious, but where is the oil flow regulated (probably by an orifice) in that oil system.  The oil flow would be high without it with the oil supply source right off the filter and the return dumping to the crankcase.  Anyone ever look?

[jgerock]

The supply hose/pipe has a pretty small diameter so I think that is the regulating portion of the oil supply to the KF pump.  The return hose from the pump to the block is similar in diameter to a heater hose.

[PaulTWinterton]

2 hours ago, Preyupy said:

The black pressure line runs from the oil filter bracket to the K-fish pump there is a drain/oil return line from the bottom of the pump to a fitting on the side of the block right behind the pump

 

Yes, I'm aware of the return hose.  Just replaced that 43 year old hose with a new one.  Now ALL my hoses are fresh.  Funny thing though.  It was not oily inside.  Car had been sitting for 2 weeks though.

 

 

Still, does anyone know if that hex head bolt on the side of the pump will drain oil? That would be the best thing, as I could top up the KF with fresh engine oil to be certain.

 

I will remove, test and clean the black pressure line from the filter.

Edited June 2, 2016 by PaulTWinterton

[OriginalOwner]

My assumption has always been that the oil blasts in at the top at whatever pressure & flow rate through the "small" black plastic hose, swirls around inside, flows down, then back into the block via the "big" rubber hose.  A logical engineering assumption is that flow rate is "established" as a function of the ID of the plastic inlet hose ..... in this case, small ID = small flow rate = what the engineer(s) specified.

      And the outlet hose is "huge" by comparison and therefore acts as an atmospheric dump, i.e., no back pressure.  But there is a back pressure due to the pumping pressure of the moving pistons inside the block.  

     Thus the engineers got to do an overall system function evaluation so that there need not be a separate oil "pressure regulating" device inside the KF to complicate "stuff."

 

or something like that ........

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

 

Edited June 2, 2016 by OriginalOwner

[jimk]

So it's a guess, not a firm conclusion.  Where I did my engineering, we considered erosion in unregulated flow.  The reported very dirty oil at the fitting, pointing to a suspected partial blockage.  Somebody with one of these pumps in a basket might take a look.  Cut-away views that I have do not show the oil passage detail.

[TobyB]

Yea,

I was thinking 'plugged' too-

 

Paul, pull your drain, run it to a bucket, and start'er up!

 

t

[PaulTWinterton]

1 hour ago, TobyB said:

Paul, pull your drain

Ahh...it's a little hard to reach that hose fitting with everything in place.  I've kept a replacement hose for a couple of years waiting for the time when I'd hoist the engine, remove the oil filter and dipstick support to get access to the hose.

 

BUT I did crack the banjo bolt again after running the engine with fresh oil and "EUREKA" the oil in the KF is pristine. 

 

I've concluded that the banjo bolt has not been cracked while I've had the car (26 years) and crud has accumulated at the fitting.  I cleaned it and I won't worry about the return hose.  I have no issues with the pump so I'm not going to go looking for (anymore) trouble.

[PaulTWinterton]

Just to add to the engineering comments: isn't it possible that the KF pump has a reservoir and only the overflow goes back to the pan?  Rebuilders tell you to "fill the pump with oil before use".  If it was a straight flow to the pan it would be pointless to pour in oil.

 

That may explain my clean(ish) return hose.  Not much oil returning.

 

We need a rebuilder to answer some questions...

[OriginalOwner]

To add an FYI to my engineering screed above .....

 

I just remembered an event from 17-some years ago:  the black plastic inlet hose cracked a tiny bit.  While Redneck'ing a fixit, I now remember that the inlet fitting to the KF (to which the black plastic hose attaches):  that fitting has a tiny ID, smaller than the black plastic hose ID.  So that fitting seems to me the logical oil flow rate restrictor, not the black plastic hose.

 

As jimk ponders above re. an "orifice" as a "regulator" ..... yep, that fitting tiny ID is certainly an orifice, and would serve to regulate flow rate into the KF.

 

And, there's another similar fitting at the other end of the black plastic hose which attaches to the oil filter bracket.

 

Thus, there can be reasonably considered to exist 2 orifices in the oil flow path to the KF.  Such may have been the intent of the KF designer(s).

 

On the topic of an "oil reservoir" in the KF:  the word "reservoir" is mentioned in this thread:

  http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/7284009-2002-Tii-Mechanical-Fuel-Pimp

 

 

Cheers,

 

Carl

 

Edited June 2, 2016 by OriginalOwner
new info

[jimk]

10 hours ago, PaulTWinterton said:

 isn't it possible that the KF pump has a reservoir and only the overflow goes back to the pan?  Rebuilders tell you to "fill the pump with oil before use".  If it was a straight flow to the pan it would be pointless to pour in oil

Sounds good.  Some parts run thru the oil pool and throw oil around for other parts needing it.

My last job before hanging it up was a million cfm fan with a 45,000 lb wheel/shaft, 28 ft between the two bearings.  Bearings were 12 inch bore x 24 inch long babbit sleeve and oiled only be a ring oiler that hung on the shaft like a big hula hoop and dipped in the oil pool.  As the shaft turned, the ring oiler dragged oil up onto the shaft and that was it.

[ray_]

1 hour ago, jimk said:

Sounds good.  Some parts run thru the oil pool and throw oil around for other parts needing it.

My last job before hanging it up was a million cfm fan with a 45,000 lb wheel/shaft, 28 ft between the two bearings.  Bearings were 12 inch bore x 24 inch long babbit sleeve and oiled only be a ring oiler that hung on the shaft like a big hula hoop and dipped in the oil pool.  As the shaft turned, the ring oiler dragged oil up onto the shaft and that was it.

 

Can you plumb that to an S14 plenum?

 

 

Pump cutaway here: looks like Gus runs oil to the head...

https://youtu.be/e2OdpkLzo9Q?t=1519