Alpina and Borrani (CMR) 13” Steel Rims

[2002Scoob]

Heheh I’ve been eyeballing those Kermit green wheels for several weeks now, laughing at the guy in the classifieds asking 2500 for those rusty ass beat wheels cuz someone paid too much that one time on bring a trailer.

 

He’s dropped the price twice now to 599, if I had extra change I’d go pick ‘em up.

[RFord888]

3 hours ago, 2002Scoob said:

Heheh I’ve been eyeballing those Kermit green wheels for several weeks now, laughing at the guy in the classifieds asking 2500 for those rusty ass beat wheels cuz someone paid too much that one time on bring a trailer.

 

He’s dropped the price twice now to 599, if I had extra change I’d go pick ‘em up.

How do you know he dropped the price to $599? I don't see anything in the ad. Thanks

[Alpina-A0]

13 hours ago, 2002Scoob said:

Heheh I’ve been eyeballing those Kermit green wheels for several weeks now, laughing at the guy in the classifieds asking 2500 for those rusty ass beat wheels cuz someone paid too much that one time on bring a trailer.

 

He’s dropped the price twice now to 599, if I had extra change I’d go pick ‘em up.

I'm also wondering where you got that information from? The crazy guy in the classifieds (who is in fact me) did not ever dropped the price (not once, not twice and for sure not to 599,-$)!
And if you read the articel in the sales section attentively, you will also see that I'm open for fair offers and I only threw 2500,-$ in the round because the wheels I found on bring a trailer for sure were the same condition befor beeing resprayed and restored for, let me say 1000,-$ ?
So those who wrote with me can confirm that I'm definitely not stucking to the 2500,-$ that I thought could be realistic from the BAT auction!
Who ever is interested in the wheels: just get in touch with me...

Best, from Munich Germany, Michael

[2002Scoob]

40 minutes ago, Alpina-A0 said:

I'm also wondering where you got that information from? The crazy guy in the classifieds (who is in fact me) did not ever dropped the price (not once, not twice and for sure not to 599,-$)!
And if you read the articel in the sales section attentively, you will also see that I'm open for fair offers and I only threw 2500,-$ in the round because the wheels I found on bring a trailer for sure were the same condition befor beeing resprayed and restored for, let me say 1000,-$ ?
So those who wrote with me can confirm that I'm definitely not stucking to the 2500,-$ that I thought could be realistic from the BAT auction!
Who ever is interested in the wheels: just get in touch with me...

Best, from Munich Germany, Michael

Calm, sir  I was referring to the Kermit Green wheels. I mean you no offence, but 2500 just seems like a lot for wheels in need of a good bit of work and straightening, that's all. 

10 hours ago, RFord888 said:

How do you know he dropped the price to $599? I don't see anything in the ad. Thanks

 

They were 650 for a while, and dropped to 599 negotiable recently. 

 

The add to the green wheels is here, for those who are interested. 

seltene Borrani Felgen 6x13 ET 30 Reifen neuwertig LK 4/100 in Saarland - Tholey | Reifen & Felgen | eBay Kleinanzeigen

WWW.EBAY-KLEINANZEIGEN.DE

---

Top Borrani Felgen inkl neuwertigen Reifen 175/70/13 BMW 02 ,auch für VW und Opel Modelle 4/100...,seltene Borrani Felgen 6x13 ET 30 Reifen neuwertig LK 4/100 in Saarland - Tholey

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by 2002Scoob

[Conserv]

My belief, Michael, is that if you want Bring a Trailer prices, you must actually list on Bring a Trailer. Bring a Trailer engenders so much testosterone, bravado, showmanship, oneupmanship, cash, and cool — and perhaps too much Scotch at times — that buyers make crazy decisions.
 

So while I believe that Bring a Trailer might lead the market, both indicating and shaping its direction, it is not the market. I still believe you can buy a “$4,000” set of Borrani steelies for $1,000 to $1,250 — provided you don’t need them on your car this week, and you don’t need to impress an audience.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

[2002Scoob]

I personally would run those green wheels as-is, just for a bit of that funky-fresh.

[BritshIron]

Michael, recently I had four Borrani wheels trued and thoroughly checked by Mike Rizeman at Valley Wire Wheels in Van Nuys, CA. They didn't need much, and he tossed in four Borrani decals. I think it was $100 USD. Then the wheels went to Eldorado Sand Blasting Company in San Diego, and I had them bead blasted and powder coated for $85 each, or $340 USD total. Done, and quite nice. There should be someone in your area to do something similar for a similar price. I'll bet you can have a set a nice, silver set of Borrani's for about $500. Then, they'll bring a very good price. All the best. Aloha, Robert 

 

PS. Photos "Before"and "After" repairs. The wheel center caps were a whole other story, but I finally got them sorted out and fitting properly (with a die grinder!) RPS

 

[markmac]

Crazzzzzy.  I had a 73tii that had factory alloys on it, I sent those wheels off to those folks (this is late 80's).  The wheels 'looked' really good - not so much.  They were not basket case or anything like that, just needed some attention here and there (you would never see it with your eyes) - and that can make a huge difference on how a car drives.  they made them perfectly round again and re-finished as good (probably better) than factory.  I highly recommend, you can't be in business that long and not be v-good at what you do.

[zinz]

18 hours ago, BritshIron said:

he tossed in four Borrani decals

 

I need some of those Borrani decals!

 

Ed

[BritshIron]

Ed, just ask him with your usual charm. I'm quite sure he's still got a bunch. He says proper mounting spot is directly across from the valve stem. Aloha, Robert

 

Mike Rizenman Valley Wire Wheels Van Nuys (818) 785-7237

[NickVyse]

2 hours ago, zinz said:

 

I need some of those Borrani decals!

 

Ed

 

This is what I used on my centre caps. Can't tell you how long they'll last, but at that price you could replace them every year

 

https://www.isaydingdong.co.uk/shop/search.php?q=borrani

 

[zinz]

1 hour ago, NickVyse said:

This is what I used on my centre caps.

 

Fantastic, Nick!!  Thanks very much!

 

Ed Z

 

And thank you, too, Robert!

Edited October 20, 2022 by zinz

[JohnP_02]

Question about the 6" Borranis, have we established with any of this data or historical records why there were two different models for the 6" and two different offsets? I have been told one was made for Opel and the other for BMW, and there are KBA numbers that were attached to this. Going by the ET/offset it would seem logical that the 561's were for BMW, but curious if anyone has any refences for this? 

 

 

[Alpina-A0]

As far as I know, there were no specific 6" for the 2002! T my knowledge the 528 that got a KA for Opel do fit the 2002 going by the ET!

This is what I was told!

[Conserv]

3 hours ago, JohnP_02 said:

Question about the 6" Borranis, have we established with any of this data or historical records why there were two different models for the 6" and two different offsets? I have been told one was made for Opel and the other for BMW, and there are KBA numbers that were attached to this. Going by the ET/offset it would seem logical that the 561's were for BMW, but curious if anyone has any refences for this? 

 

 

I’m anxiously awaiting informed opinions such as @Alpina-A0’s. Perhaps the KBA applications — if they are available — show precisely the cars for which the rims were approved. If not, read on!
 

When I was doing the legwork to assemble data on the CMR steelies, I noticed that European commenters, e.g., the German 2002 forum, leaned toward a scenario that the ET30 version (Model 561) was for Opels and the ET17 version (Model 528) was for BMW’s. U.S. commenters, on the other hand, leaned toward a scenario that the ET30 version was intended for ‘02’s and the ET17 version was for… well, it was for something else!

 

I believe the “European leaning” might have been premised in typical offsets for (a.) front-wheel-drive Opels, and (b.) BMW e21’s. That would make sense but — here’s the fly in the ointment — my data collection revealed that the CMR rims were manufactured long before front-wheel-drive Opels and BMW e21’s. I believe that both models of 6” rims were in production in the late 1960’s, while front-wheel-drive Opels and BMW e21’s sound like mid-1970’s inventions. And the “U.S. leaning” might have been founded in the fact that ET30 happens to be a great offset (technically “inset”) if you’re attempting to mount maximum meat on your ‘02.

 

I notice from the CMR matrix that three models, 440, 441, and 528, have extremely low KBA numbers: 40006, 40005, and 40008, respectively. If KBA numbers were assigned on a first-come basis — surely someone such as @uai might know whether that is true — then I would guess that all three models were registered with German authorities ca. 1967. (The “Earliest date” on my schedule is hampered by the fact that the earliest rims probably had no data on their hub face, and people are naturally hesitant to dismount tires solely to explore for stampings on the barrel.) I’ve highlighted these very earliest models in green. And then, two models, 471 and 561, have consecutive KBA numbers of 400072 and 400073, slighty, but not significantly later than the earlier three. So I’d guess that perhaps these two model’s were registered in 1968, despite the 1972 "Earliest date" for the ET30 (Model 561) based on a small number of observed date stampings. I’ve highlighted these slightly-later versions in blue.

 

So… if someone wanted to do some research, here’s a project. Make a list of car brands and models available in 1967-68 that (1.) take a 13” rim, and (2.) have a 4x100 PCD. Then, for these cars, list out the factory rim widths and offsets and see what best matches ET30 and ET17 for a 6” rim, recognizing that wider rims often demand a shift in offset. Maybe the answers remain Opel and BMW 2002. But I don’t know!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve