Strut lower ball joints conundrum

[AustrianVespaGuy]

So while prepping my car for sale as I can't in good conscience sell my car unless it's 100%, I unfortunately discovered that my engine mount bracket has started to crack.  So out with the subframe to weld in the reinforcement.  Not a huge deal, already have it out, but here's the weird thing that I found during the process that I'm not sure whether I need to mess with also or leave it be.  The lower ball joints had been replaced on my car before I got it, so I never messed with them when doing the struts, just compressed the spring get it out from under the fender and left the bottom all attached.  But this time I split the knuckles from the strut to get the subframe out and left the struts in the car (didn't really want to open the brake lines), and it appears to me that the replacement ball joints were installed 'wrong.'  Wrong as in they poke up through the bottom of the control arm rather than sitting on the top of it.  This in turn I think has led to the knuckle chewing up the control arm flanges a bit.  Now I don't think this happens while driving, only when turning lock to lock when at full droop with the nose in the air.  While I'm here, should I go ahead and replace the ball joints, but this time install them on the top side like in all the diagrams I've seen?  After removing the nut, how does one separate the knuckle from the ball joint? And do I need to replace the control arms too?  What sayeth the FAQ?

[AustrianVespaGuy]

P.S. The fancy 14mm safety wire bolts that hold the knuckle to the bottom of the strut are NLA right?  Mine are OK, but would feel better if there were new(er) fasteners I could use for re-assembly. . .

[Son of Marty]

The safety wire bolts part#32211113178 are still available but not cheap at around 9 dollars each. 

[tzei]

At full drop - yea they tend to do that. Even if b/joint on correct side. Now getting that steering arm off without braking the joint might be tricky. Expect rubber to die in progress if you need to fork it out. Some heat & chemicals helps (chemicals are not for you to take).

[Mike Self]

When you reassemble the steering arm and strut, do yourself--and especially the next owner(s) a big favor and pack that space where the ball joint attaching nut is located with heavy wheel bearing grease.  That will at least slow down, if not eliminate everything in there turning into unrecognizible iron oxide.

 

Don't forget to safety wire those bolts and use anti seize on all three.  And for goodness sake, don't be tempted to substitute ordinary bolts for those $9 special bolts...the next owner(s) will thank you.

 

mike

[TobyB]

For a car I was selling, if the joints were in good shape, I'd not bother with them.

 

Yep, I'm the PO this board warned you about.

 

t

because, if it was my car, I wouldn't care much if they were backwards, as long as the joints were good.

 

[AustrianVespaGuy]

Well, main issue resolved! If I can find that pair of new balljoints that I *think* I might already have laying around here somewhere by the time I get done painting it, I'll swap 'em out and put them on top this time, but if I can't dig them up then I'll just I'll leave well enough alone.  Thanks all!

Edited April 1 by AustrianVespaGuy

[Dudeland]

1 hour ago, AustrianVespaGuy said:

Well, main issue resolved! If I can find that pair of new balljoints that I *think* I might already have laying around here somewhere by the time I get done painting it, I'll swap 'em out and put them on top this time, but if I can't dig them up then I'll just I'll leave well enough alone.  Thanks all!

I was just about to order a 2nd reinforcing bit, but thanks to me rummaging around for the brake M/C grommets that didn't fit my ATE M/C, I found it!.  I know I am dreaming when I say I want to put it in while in the car. 

 

... put it on the to do list. 

 

 

[Dudeland]

P.S. sorry to hear you are selling it. 

[AustrianVespaGuy]

59 minutes ago, Dudeland said:

I know I am dreaming when I say I want to put it in while in the car.

Yeah, don't do that! Granted I'm speaking before having put it back IN yet, but dropping the subframe out was actually rather straight forward with no major complications. I had it out in about 3 hours by myself.  Wooden from and rachet strap to support the engine, up on the jackstands and the wheels off.  Took a bit of futzing around to access all the safety-wire strut bolts but I'd had them apart a few years ago and soaked 'em first, so no major drama there.  Then the steering coupler and engine mounts, and finally the six subframe bolts and down she came! Really wasn't that bad, though as I said I'm betting getting everything aligned to go back together might - uncharacteristically - be the trickier half of this job, but we'll see shortly!

['76mintgrün'02]

I reinforced my driver's side mount bracket with the subframe installed, when I removed the steering box to reseal it.  It wasn't ideal, but doable.  They're not my prettiest welds, but nobody's going to see them.  (unless they're reading this)

 

 

 

I went with the boxed-in solution, but either way works.  Just make sure to leave room for the nut, so the stud on the mount is long enough.  Double layers aren't necessary up there, since the cracking happens down low.

 

Tom

Edited April 2 by '76mintgrün'02
simpled it

[Lucky 7]

On 3/30/2024 at 5:14 PM, Mike Self said:

When you reassemble the steering arm and strut, do yourself--and especially the next owner(s) a big favor and pack that space where the ball joint attaching nut is located with heavy wheel bearing grease.  That will at least slow down, if not eliminate everything in there turning into unrecognizible iron oxide.

 

Don't forget to safety wire those bolts and use anti seize on all three.  And for goodness sake, don't be tempted to substitute ordinary bolts for those $9 special bolts...the next owner(s) will thank you.

 

mike

Whats the likelihood of a failure with regular bolts?  I ask because that’s what my car came with, I only learned about the wire tie setup later. For now they’re red loctited in there.  I’m not opposed to swapping them out, just curious how necessary it is. Lots of other bolts on the car that aren’t wired…

[jimk]

6 hours ago, Lucky 7 said:

Whats the likelihood of a failure with regular bolts?  I ask because that’s what my car came with, I only learned about the wire tie setup later. For now they’re red loctited in there.  I’m not opposed to swapping them out, just curious how necessary it is. Lots of other bolts on the car that aren’t wired…

You are ok

From an engineer's point of view and the history of what was available in the mechanic's toolbox in the 1970s, safety wire was used on bolts that if came loose and dropped out would not be a good deal.  Only bolts that I can recall that had thread locker were flywheel bolts.  If the flywheel was removed, new bolts were used that came with locker on them.

[Lucky 7]

Perfect, thanks for the info.