Seized motor

[flexicanfranko]

Hello Everyone..

 

Let me introduce myself. We are a dad and son duo who recently purchased a 1976 BMW 2002 4 speed. It looks as if the motor is locked up. We pulled the plugs last weekend and sprayed PB blaster and poured some Marvel oil down the plug ports as well. Today we attempted to turn the motor by hand with a socket on the crank and no luck. We decided to let it sit again and try during the week again. We are new to this type of motors as I myself drive a 1965 Mustang with a 302 motor. My son loves this year and I don't think it was a bad deal for the price. Its just a bummer that the we might need to rebuild this motor. Any ideas on what I should try or expect to do with this engine?

 

Thanks in advance

[stephers]

Hi   Even if you got it to turn over or even move, chances are that the bottom end will need a rebuild anyways.    I would just pull the head and see what the bores look like and what the head looks like    Then go from there.         You can remove the head with both manifolds still on, that way you do the least amount to get the head off

 

Thanks, Rick

[Tommy]

Welcome on board! After sitting so long, just by the picture, and stuck, I would take the motor apart and go from there.

 

The body doesn't look bad but, sitting on grass for quite a while,... you may find unpleasant surpises from underside... which might make the motor the easy part. Good luck though!👍

Edited January 14 by Tommy

[flexicanfranko]

Thanks for the information guys. I will look into what it takes to pull the head off. We got the car up on the lift and it doesn’t look too bad besides a few rust spots on the driver side and passenger side corners. Also I noticed that the clutch and brake pedals are stuck. Any ideas on how to release these? The car moved freely when we moved it to the house but the pedals don’t move.

 

 

[OldRoller]

Welcome to the Forum! Good to see another 02 being rescued. Your piston rings are very likely stuck, rusted to the cylinder walls. Let it soak as you are doing, continue to work it, you may get lucky but in the end will need at the very least rings and a cylinder cleanup. My 74 sat for 35 years with no head and needed pistons/rings/bore job. The bottom end was pristine, was excellent after 109K miles.

Your brake and clutch masters are corroded at the aluminum end plugs to the cast bodies. Try removing them and with retaining clips removed shock them with a suitable socket/hammer. Once free disassemble and check the innards for rust, etc. Rebuild kits are available.

Good luck with the 02, a good cleaning will make a huge difference!

[Joesprocket]

I took on a project car not too dissimilar from this 1 year ago this month. I also had an engine that was seized and did every treatment in the book to try and free it up. After months of patiently waiting for different oils and solvents to do their work i finally admitted defeat and took on removing the head (not to hard of a job if you follow the Haynes Manual) then pulled the block for a full rebuild. I am SO glad I stopped when i did. I could have done serious damage to the bores had the rings broken free. There was so much corrosion in the water and oil passages that even if I did get the motor to turn, maybe even run, it wouldn't have done so reliably or for very long. I wish you all the luck in freeing it up but if you're looking to actually enjoy driving this thing, the best course of action is to yank it and rebuild it.

[0257]

1 hour ago, Joesprocket said:

I took on a project car not too dissimilar from this 1 year ago this month. I also had an engine that was seized and did every treatment in the book to try and free it up. After months of patiently waiting for different oils and solvents to do their work i finally admitted defeat and took on removing the head (not to hard of a job if you follow the Haynes Manual) then pulled the block for a full rebuild. I am SO glad I stopped when i did. I could have done serious damage to the bores had the rings broken free. There was so much corrosion in the water and oil passages that even if I did get the motor to turn, maybe even run, it wouldn't have done so reliably or for very long. I wish you all the luck in freeing it up but if you're looking to actually enjoy driving this thing, the best course of action is to yank it and rebuild it.

+1 to this.  Given you have a lift and a lot more to do on this car than just a motor rebuild you should consider dropping the motor and front subframe together, which is a pretty easy operation and gives you the ability to thoroughly rehab the various aspects of the steering/suspension/brakes/hubs on a tabletop before reinstalling it all.  Also gives you much easier acess to other parts that obviously need attention, like brake hydraulics and mechanicals.  There are numerous posts and articles on the FAQ about every single one of these topics, as you may already have seen.  Easiest way in my experience to find them is to Google search “2002faq [topic]”, as the logic of the site’s internal search function escapes me.  It is worth your time to study up and do most of the procedures according to the book (by that, I mean the FAQ), as these cars were really precision instruments for their time — even the best of our American cars had much looser specs and tolerated much sloppier work — using the right parts and techniques will reward you with a ride that is still impressive even by modern standards.

 

Welcome to the FAQ.  Great movie!  By the trees in that first photo, it appears you may have discovered a rare Piney Woods ‘02?

 

Ken

[tech71]

6 hours ago, flexicanfranko said:

Also I noticed that the clutch and brake pedals are stuck. Any ideas on how to release these?

Replace the corroded up brake master, clutch master and clutch slave cylinders with serviceable parts😉 Probably all rubber brake/clutch lines as well as front brake calipers and rear brake cylinders.Brakes be important.

I'm with everybody above... very unlikely that engine will be usable

[TobyB]

Imma jus leave dis here:

https://www.youtube.com/@I_Do_Cars

 

There's no way to know what you're going to find in that engine.  

So pop the head off. 

Lucky?  A bit o' rust.  Unlucky?  Piston nuggets.

The Haynes manual is better than the Chilton's,

but linked in this board are more manuals that will help with details.

The original BMW manuals are very good, but a bit hard to navigate at 

first, as things like head bolt torques and stuff are in tables at the chapter beginnings.

Figure that whatever you're used to tightening things to on the Mustang,

it'll be about half that on the  BMW.  

 

The brakes, clutch, under- dash details (heater box, mostly)

and rear spring perches all are going to need attention.

The pedal bucket is worth taking out, cleaning, repainting and rebushing

if the pedals are stuck.  When clean and lubed, they last forever.  Full of rust,

they cause nothing but trouble.  Likewise, that linkage to the brake main cylinder support pillar.

 

Front wheel bearings are like your Mustang, but leave the bearings almost loose-

tightening them like an American car will kill them.

I personally swap the front brakes for the 320 style hubs and rotors, and a Volvo 240 caliper

(well documented on this board)

because the original design is hard to work on, AND marginal for track or long downhill driving.

And the swap parts, except for the hubs, are no more expensive than the originals.

 

The trans and diff, if they spin freely, are 99% likely to be OK, as are the CV axles.

The driveshaft center support is worth replacing, and careful checking of the 

u- joints is worth it.  The rubber suspension bushings will probably benefit from

replacement, front and back, but if they seem solid and resist prying with a long bar,

there's no reason to replace them.

 

Rear wheel bearings are...  well, they're stout, but if they've ever failed, you'll find that they

can do damage to the hub and stub axle.  If they turn freely and the nut is absurdly tight,

well, you have more than enough to do already, so leave them.  But if they show signs of 

leakage, the nuts can be removed with a 1/2" breaker bar, or they're tight (or loose) or rough,

while you're in there for the brakes it's worth taking them apart and seeing how bad the damage is...

It's not uncommon to find one side or the other's a mess, while its compatriot's fine.

 

Other than that, well, there are the thousands of little idiosyncracies that any car designed 60 years

ago on a napkin will have (clutch secondary cylinder, for example) but it's pretty easy to work on.

When you get to the interior, remember that BMW was in dire financial straits, and was using the

VW Bug as a pattern to restore them to financial health.  So it's kinda... lightweight compared to 

everything that went before.  And lots of what came after.

 

Welcome, and good luck!

t

 

 

[popovm]

3 hours ago, tech71 said:

Replace the corroded up brake master, clutch master and clutch slave cylinders with serviceable parts😉 Probably all rubber brake/clutch lines as well as front brake calipers and rear brake cylinders.Brakes be important.

I'm with everybody above... very unlikely that engine will be usable

I’ll add hard brake lines to that mix. At least put eyes on all of them. The easily visible hard lines in my engine bay were pretty crusty so I decided to redo all of them. I am glad I did. The long line to the back of the car completely fell apart as I was removing it. I know the later cars have dial circuit brakes but that still was freaky to me.
 

There are a couple kits. Walloth and Nesch sells a kit of your standard steel hard lines but when I bought it they didn’t include the longer rear line that 76s use that run along the driver’s side frame rail and sill instead of the trans tunnel. You can change over to the trans tunnel routing but I didn’t want to put in new hold down tabs and such. @AceAndrew bailed me out and sold me just the longer late car rear line in the cunifer material that he makes his full brake line kit out of. If you can swing it I would recommend going with his cunifer kit. It’s soooooo much easier to bend the lines to get them in place compared to the steel lines. It’s more money but I imagine you more than make up for it in time saved. 

[Mike Self]

Not that I'm recommending you try to start the engine without at least pulling the head, but your lack of engine turnover may be due to just one (or more) stuck valve or rocker arm.  I'd first suspect any valve that was left open when the engine last run--which is probably several.  The quick and dirty way to tell if those are stuck is to loosen the valve adjuster so it's completely slack, and see if the valve comes up as you loosen the adjuster. If it's noticeably lower than its neighbors, lubricate it copiously and let it sit, then hit the valve end of the rocker arm with a deadblow hammer and see if the valve now pops up.  One stuck valve can keep the whole engine from turning.  And if you can get it to turn over by hand, at least you can be reasonably assured it isn't hopelessly frozen or grenaded internally.

 

But even if you get it to turn over by hand, I'd still at least pull the head to see what's going on inside.

 

mike

[OldRoller]

I would ask the question: what do you intend the car to be? Fully restored? Daily driver? Just a beater? The 'Mission Creep' expands exponentially with the three choices. 

Nothing moves until the engine runs. Likely not going to free it, and even so the damage is there. Pull the head (easy), then pull the engine and break it down. Pictures pictures pictures and bad and tag ALL fasteners. Determine whether a rebuild is viable vs a used engine. 

All other gear can be addressed after the engine runs. Rely on the forum if you have questions, the folks here are extraordinary! 

[flexicanfranko]

Since it's my son's I would like it to be a good daily driver. Where can I find a rebuild kit? 

 

 

Thanks for the information guys. I will look into what it takes to pull the head off. We got the car up on the lift and it doesn’t look too bad besides a few rust spots on the driver side and passenger side corners. Also I noticed that the clutch and brake pedals are stuck. Any ideas on how to release these? The car moved freely when we moved it to the house but the pedals don’t move.

 

 

[tech71]

27 minutes ago, flexicanfranko said:

Where can I find a rebuild kit? 

Probably nowhere, I've never come across one for the M10 engine.

Gasket kits yes, but a comprehensive overhaul kit with bearings, rings ect? Nope.

Car looks complete, straight and unmolested, thats a plus. Not easy to find these days.

Any idea why it got parked and how long?

Love to see some more pics of engine bay, trunk, interior and exterior after a good wash.

Edited January 14 by tech71

[lunarkingdom]

23 minutes ago, tech71 said:

Probably nowhere, I've never come across one for the M10 engine.

Gasket kits yes, but a comprehensive overhaul kit with bearings, rings ect? Nope.

Ireland engineering has kits for each part like head kit lower end kit etc