Engine won't turn - no idea why

[nodoi]

I'm stuck and not sure how to move forward. I was having problems with my fuel pump and during that process found a pool of oil under my car the day after cranking on it for a while. I assumed it was building pressure and then forcing its way out an existing leak at the distributor housing. I ordered a replacement gasket and seal and decided to pull the distributor and sensor out of the housing. I pulled the valve cover and tried to rotate the engine to TDC, but it wouldn't budge. I am just pushing on the belt and trying to rotate, but nothing. I pulled the plugs and made sure it was in neutral... no change.

Here's where I know just enough to be dangerous: I thought "it was cranking just fine before, maybe I should try again." So I buttoned it back together and cranked it and it spun for a second and then made a noise like it wasn't turning anymore. And then just to be sure that I heard what I heard, I did it again and it did the same thing. 😣
What's going on? Any ideas? How do I move forward to diagnose this without doing any further damage? Is it possible that I have crashed internal bits and bent valves or something?
I need some wisdom please.
 

['76mintgrün'02]

Is it "in neutral?"  (Out of gear)

[nodoi]

Yes it is in neutral. 

[jimk]

Pull the distr and view in the hole on the head/distr housing to make sure nothing fell in there and is locking the cam.

[Schnellvintage]

Make sure the starter gear is disengaged from the ring gear on the flywheel. I have had the starter gear/solenoid get bound up and keep the engine from rotating. 

 

Does the engine rotate with it in gear and push it back and forth?

Edited October 21, 2023 by Schnellvintage
typo

[tzei]

No oil/ oil pump dead: Conrod bearings welded to crank journals.

 

hope not

[John76]

Remove the spark plugs, put the tranny in 4th, and roll the car forward or backwards to see if anything is binding.

As @jimk suggested, remove the dizzy to view the cam gear as you rock the car forward and backwards...gently!

[Son of Marty]

Did you use the right fuel pump push rod?

[Mike Self]

This has gotta be something simple.  Engines (usually) don't freeze themselves up when they aren't running unless something was done to jam them.   While a "black swan" occurrence could happen (timing chain suddenly broke, a valve dropped etc) I'd look at more logical causal problems first...

 

Think carefully about what you did to your engine between the time you last ran it until it became locked up. 

• As son of Marty said, if you changed fuel pumps, are you sure you used the correct pushrod (two different pump styles, two different pushrods). 
• Did you locate the source of the oil puddle you found under the engine?  
• Per John's suggestion, did you put the car in 4th gear and try to move it back and forth--pull the valve cover and watch for rocker arm movement while you do this.
• Did you check to see if the starter had failed to disengage itself from the ring gear?  Sometimes a sharp rap with a hammer on the starter motor housing will jar the bendix drive loose.
• moving further down the list--did you pull the valve cover and make sure all is well in the valve/rocker arm department?

I'm sure others will come up with more things to check--but let us know whatcha find...we love these oddball puzzles!

 

cheers, and hope it is something simple...

 

mike

[visionaut]

So it’s gotten rather far along from just checking your fuel pressure…

 

So how big was the pool of oil below? Have you topped off/checked oil level since? Must’ve been lots of cranking to push a pool of oil past your dizzy seal…You had no starter or battery issues when you cranked it so much trying to deal with your fuel issue?

 

So you pulled your dizzy to replace the oil seal. Did you mark it, pull it and then reinsert it oriented exactly as prior? Did you turn the motor while it was removed, or is this when you tried but couldn’t ? Why did you begin to check for TDC?  Did you alter the dizzy static timing? 

When you finally got to cranking it, and it spins, it then dies while spinning? Is the cranking normal speed? AND you can repeat cranking it and it’ll still spin a bit every time before stopping? Does the motor turn more than 2 rotations? Does the motor stop but the starter keeps turning? There’s an unusual noise, not silence, when it stops? 

 

Is your battery healthy? Good grounds to chassis and engine? It might possibly be a starter solenoid failing or faulty wiring at the solenoid…

[nodoi]

This is all exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Y'all!
Unfortunately due to plumbing emergencies and family commitments I've had zero minutes to look into this. I hope I can carve out some time tomorrow (fixed the leaky bathroom faucet today!) But alas, there is a soccer game and a few other blocks on the calendar. I hope I can take all this advice and reply at some point tomorrow.

I see comments about the fuel pump not having the correct rod. That wasn't the issue with the fuel pump. It's the same one that was there before, but now the o-ring in the top is not a crusty mess and seals so the pump can pump.
 

[OldRoller]

Use a 30mm socket/ratchet on the crank pulley nut, turn it slowly counter clockwise. If the starter is bound it will kick it out. If you cannot turn it CCW, try clockwise and see how much it will move. Some movement then a 'hard stop clunk' in either direction will help with diagnosis. You may have to start removing pieces... starter, dizzy, valve cover for chain gear inspection, etc. 

Interesting case, for sure.

[nodoi]

Ok. Pulled the distributor again. I just see oil in the hole. Put a magnet in there to see if anything fell in (not likely) and there was nothing. The engagement screw at the bottom of the distributer looks fine. I pulled the plugs and rolled the car in 4th and the engine turns! It still wants to bind up when I try to make it turn using the belt. I'm probably not getting enough engagement with the belt, but I can't really push any harder.

On the topic of the starter gear/ solenoid getting bound up, how do I check this? Do I need to pull the starter off? Mike mentioned hitting the starter, is this a sign that I'm going to need to hunt for a replacement? 

I'm encouraged that it's turning (kinda) but I want to make sure I'm not making things worse before trying to crank it over again. Maybe the best move is to manually push it in 4th till I make a full revolution of the engine?
 

On 10/21/2023 at 10:34 AM, Schnellvintage said:

Make sure the starter gear is disengaged from the ring gear on the flywheel. I have had the starter gear/solenoid get bound up and keep the engine from rotating. 

 

Does the engine rotate with it in gear and push it back and forth?

[John76]

22 minutes ago, nodoi said:

Mike mentioned hitting the starter, is this a sign that I'm going to need to hunt for a replacement? 

If you have the original starter, a common problem is the plastic bushing on the rear shaft wears out and binds.

This causes the starter to turn very slowly, especially when the engine is hot. 

Rebuilt Bosch starters are available at very reasonable prices. 

 

It's not unusual for turning the engine by hand (using the fan w/o plugs) to become "harder" in some areas during rotation.

Must have something to do with how many valves are being compressed at one time?  I have the head off my engine and the pistons/rods removed and can almost spin the crank by blowing on the fan blades!

[paulyg]

Definitely use the crank bolt next time you go to turn it. It will give you a much better feel for what is binding the engine up. Honestly you may be running up against compression, as John said if you pull the spark plugs you can eliminate that variable.