Budget E10 2002 plain Jane motor rebuild/refresh kit

[lunarkingdom]

Hey guys,

I am looking to put together a plan to rebuild/refresh my plain Jane 2002 motor. I am looking for guidance on what the critical items are (timing chain/tensioner/oil pump/bearings/cam/etc) and what is probably ok to use. For example I was reading about the oil pumps and someone somewhere said something like "If xxx is good those oil pumps last for 300k miles" and/or "you can rebuild the oil pump easy with xxx part". I am paraphrasing and generalizing as I still need to learn what to look for, what I need, where to get the best pricing etc from you guys.

I have a motor that's dirty and been sitting for some time, it has a broken rocker arm. If I have good compression and a replacement rocker arm, what do I need to replace as I go through the motor to fix the problem? What should I plan on replacing? What should I not have to worry about? 

Should I just find a good head and replace it and the timing chain?

I have the matching vin numbered block so this motor is just a runner. I dont want to upgrade much if anything in the performance department.

I appreciate every one of you who has helped me find parts and answered my sometimes strange questions. You make this all possible.

Best regards,

lunarkingdom (Rick)

[Son of Marty]

Any idea how many miles on the engine? You'll need to pull the head to replace the rocker, then you can assess the rest of the engine. You ask about the oil pump and really the only way to determine that is to take it apart and see. 

[Mike Self]

Besides the mileage, as pointed out above, there are lotsa variables, some of which you won't be able to answer unless you either have maintenance records or at least know about the car it came from. 

 

The original engine in my '69 is still running well at 227k miles; everything is original except the valve guides/stem seals, and the rocker arms and shafts which were replaced at 100k miles due to a rocker arm failure (early cars didn't have bushed rocker arms) brought on by a valve failure which fortunately didn't damage the piston.  The pan has never been off the engine, so everything in the block is still original.  Uses a little oil but hardly smokes.   I've maintained it carefully since the car was new, so have all the records for when I eventually have to rebuild.  

 

 Without knowing your engine's history, you'll just have to dismantle it, check every moving part for wear and replace as necessary.  And since you're looking to do an "economical" rebuild (that may be an oxymoron, BTW) without checking each part you may end up replacing things unnecessarily--or the opposite.

 

mike

[lunarkingdom]

9 hours ago, Son of Marty said:

You'll need to pull the head to replace the rocker, then you can assess the rest of the engine.

I was under the (loose) impression that if I pull the engine I will have enough room to pull the tube out?

 

8 hours ago, Mike Self said:

Without knowing your engine's history, you'll just have to dismantle it, check every moving part for wear and replace as necessary.

I am with you on this but the first thing I am going to do is:
a) put a n endoscope into the cylinder with the broken rocker (and the other three) to see what if any damage is in there.
b) turn it over with a compression gage on each cylinder to see how the rings are doing
c) check the cam for excessive wear

If I have decent compression and the cam looks good, I will consider leaving the head on (if possible to replace rocker this way just waiting for Marty to let me know) and buying new timing chain/tensioner/water pump and front gasket kit then giving it a go.

My carb has been sitting for years, is it better to just buy a new one or try and rebuild the carb?

Much appreciated,

Rick
 

[jimk]

1 hour ago, lunarkingdom said:

was under the (loose) impression that if I pull the engine I will have enough room to pull the tube out?

Yes

[Mike Self]

2 hours ago, lunarkingdom said:

turn it over with a compression gage on each cylinder to see how the rings are doing

Do a leakdown test too...a good companion to a compression test that will provide additional information as to whether any compression loss is from rings or valves.

 

And another consideration--especially if the bottom end checks out:  if prior work on the valves is an unknown factor, you might consider pulling the head not only for the broken rocker replacement, but to replace the valve guides and utilize the late style (E-21/E30) valve stem seals--and grind the valves at the same time.  With a sound bottom end, you will have cured the worst M10 wear problem:  valve stem seals...

 

mike

[tech71]

13 hours ago, lunarkingdom said:

If I have good compression and a replacement rocker arm, what do I need to replace as I go through the motor to fix the problem?

If you have good compression and replace the rocker do you even have a problem?

Too many variables to generalize very much.

You have two options:

1. Replace the rocker and see if it runs ok

If it does you can drive it, evaluate and make a plan if need be

 

2.Pull, disassemble, clean, measure and replace worn parts as required

Typically on overhaul, the piston ring grooves in pistons are worn beyond limits and represent a major expenditure as well as being hard to locate. Boring the block to oversize is probably in the cards as well.

Oil pumps are pretty durable, so are the crankshafts.

I always replace both timing chain sprockets, oil pump chain and timing chain.

A proper overhaul of the cylinder head is pretty extensive:

Pressure check, valve job, new rocker shifts, rockers and eccentrics.

Estimated cost if disassembling/reassembling yourself (paying machine shop for required services : $2500-$3500

Having it done by a shop: $5000-$7000 labor aint cheap

Again, there's no telling what's going on in there until you take it apart, Its possible the engine is low time and some nit over reved it and broke a rocker.

Possible but unlikely😉

I would go with option # 1, try to get it running.

If its messed up you're not out that much, any new stuff you put on can be reused, gets your feet wet yada yada.

Would you be planning to have a shop do the overhaul or yourself?

What cylinder head do you have? Its relevant.

Edited August 22, 2023 by tech71

[TobyB]

Quote

A: What should I plan on replacing?

II: What should I not have to worry about?

3: How do I know the difference?

 

A:  everything that's worn out

 

II: everything that measures new, or almost new.

 

3:  take it all all apart and inspect and measure it.

 

There is no way to have any idea about A: and II: if you don't do 3: first.

 

That's the long and short of it.  If you HAVE to know in advance, plan to replace it all,

as pistons aren't all that durable on these cars, since the ring lands tend to wear out.

Main bearings are tough as nails, but cranks often need polishing and new bearings.

Double row timing chains go forever, and oil pump drive chains a little less far.

 

Oil pumps themselves can pump clean oil for a million miles.  Very few 

engines have clean oil for a million miles.

 

There's always the option to pull the head, replace the rocker, put it back together and run it.

You'll be out a $20 rocker and a $60 head gasket set.

 

t

 

[Son of Marty]

In order to pull the rocker shaft you'll need to pull the head bolts on that side anyway and loosen the others and at that point you might as well pull the head.

[Schnellvintage]

The best practice is to take it all apart, as mentioned above, and inspect and clean everything thoroughly.  A new gasket set would eliminate future and unknown leaks.  If all checks out reassemble with another rocker arm and run it.  That would be the least expansive route, to start.

 

 

[Preyupy]

It is at least 45 years old.  You have no idea how many times it has been apart or how many miles are on it.  If it has been sitting around for a long time there is a chance that there is rust in some of the cylinders and/or crankshaft.  The last person that was inside it may or may not have known what they were doing.  It might be stock, maybe not. Has it been bored? Has the crankshaft been turned?

 

Like Toby said take it apart and replace the worn out parts, keep the good parts.  They are really simple to work on just get a manual and take your time, look at everything.  

 

[gwb72tii]

It’s so easy to pull the head that would be the minimum. And as Mike said, if it were me I’d redo the valves and guides just because…I don’t have to do it later.