Our new addition....

[FunElan]

My father and I are pretty happy (and flush) with our 2002/Lotus selection at the moment, but an opportunity presented itself. A widow in our neighborhood was selling her late husband's 68 2002. He bought it brand new and swapped it with an S14 in 2007. I looked through some records and saw that it was at our SoCal Vintage events a few times over the years, but I never met the owner even though he and the car were a mile away from our house. His middle name was Olaf, so that's what we named the car.

 

 

The car hadn't moved in 2 years, so we set about doing the routine maintenance items (fluids, injectors, a new fuel pump). Today we set about changing the crumbling poly transmission mount and RHS engine mount (yellow remains pictured).

 

 

Next step is to remove the alternator and have it redone, as the charge light is on. We've only really started and run it on the driveway, but one issue that's slightly perplexing, is that occasionally (every few times we start it up) it sounds like the starter bendix is sticking (SR441x). Sometimes it's running fine and then we start to hear the sound out of nowhere. When this happens, the charge light starts to go off (I guess the motor is spinning the starter and increasing system voltage?)

 

Sounds like we need to get the starter out, but has anyone experienced this before?

[resra]

What a find! Let me know if you need a single bottle cap wheel in excellent shape to go in the trunk. I have it for you. 

[FunElan]

14 minutes ago, resra said:

What a find! Let me know if you need a single bottle cap wheel in excellent shape to go in the trunk. I have it for you. 

 

I appreciate that, but I'm hoping to go with some period correct cosmics or minilites strapped to CN36s 😃. Sleeper look

[Mike Self]

Great find...not too many one owner 2002s around.  Very sanitary S14 installation too.  Presume the battery now lives in the trunk...

 

And those poly engine mounts should be an object lesson for those contemplating their use.  A sudden failure of those things while underway could provide way more excitement than you either expect or want.  

 

WRT the starter:  you say that "...it's running fine and then we start to hear the sound out of nowhere." do you mean that when the engine is already running, the starter engages all by itself, with no input from you?  If that's the case, that sounds like it could be a fault with the starting circuit (ignition switch, wiring, relay [if any]).

 

But if the starter fails to disengage once you've released the key after starting, then it may well be a sticking bendix drive.  

 

BTW, what's the VIN on that '68...

 

mike

 

[Mark92131]

Awesome find, matches your Dad's Cab!  Congrats!

 

Mark92131

[FunElan]

30 minutes ago, Mike Self said:

Great find...not too many one owner 2002s around.  Very sanitary S14 installation too.  Presume the battery now lives in the trunk...

 

And those poly engine mounts should be an object lesson for those contemplating their use.  A sudden failure of those things while underway could provide way more excitement than you either expect or want.  

 

WRT the starter:  you say that "...it's running fine and then we start to hear the sound out of nowhere." do you mean that when the engine is already running, the starter engages all by itself, with no input from you?  If that's the case, that sounds like it could be a fault with the starting circuit (ignition switch, wiring, relay [if any]).

 

But if the starter fails to disengage once you've released the key after starting, then it may well be a sticking bendix drive.  

 

BTW, what's the VIN on that '68...

 

mike

 

 

attaching video of the noise. This is the worst it sounded. I guess I should try and peek at how it's wired, but it's all still a mystery to me. 

 

The VIN is 1662250

 

 

12 minutes ago, Mark92131 said:

Awesome find, matches your Dad's Cab!  Congrats!

 

Mark92131

 

It is indeed Granada like the cab! Well...close to Granada. And it was made a few months after my Caribe car. Thanks Mark. 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by FunElan
video

[Mark92131]

3 hours ago, FunElan said:

This is the worst it sounded.

 

That is a strange one!  When the bendix gear engages with a rotating flywheel, it usually has a ringing with the grinding.  This one sounds like cut-off wheel at the end of the video.  It also doesn't seem to change with the change in RPM except at the end when the idle drops and it seems to go away for second.

 

What transmission is behind the S14, Getrag 265 or 245? Does the noise change with the clutch engaged?

 

Mark92131

[FunElan]

12 minutes ago, Mark92131 said:

 

That is a strange one!  When the bendix gear engages with a rotating flywheel, it usually has a ringing with the grinding.  This one sounds like cut-off wheel at the end of the video.  It also doesn't seem to change with the change in RPM except at the end when the idle drops and it seems to go away for second.

 

What transmission is behind the S14, Getrag 265 or 245? Does the noise change with the clutch engaged?

 

Mark92131

 

Pretty strange right!? It's a getrag 245. Didn't hear any change from the trans. It's def somewhere under the intake

[Mark92131]

1 minute ago, FunElan said:

It's def somewhere under the intake

 

Then Starter, Oil Separator, ICV?  Maybe the Intake Control Valve is trying to shut and making that grinding sound.  You can unplug it and see if the noise stops/changes.

 

Mark92131

[FunElan]

13 minutes ago, Mark92131 said:

 

Then Starter, Oil Separator, ICV?  Maybe the Intake Control Valve is trying to shut and making that grinding sound.  You can unplug it and see if the noise stops/changes.

 

Mark92131

 

 

The strange part, Mark, is that when the noise occurs, the charge light goes OFF at idle, but if I rev it high enough, the light will start to get brighter.

 

My engineering degree makes me think that it has to be the starter, being spun by the flywheel, and sending voltage back through the system. When voltage is too high, the light will get brighter with revs. This could all be horseshit, but it's a hunch!

 

I might just pull it anyway and bench test it, since I have to pull the alternator anyway. But once this is sorted out, it just needs an interior and it's ready to rip. 

[popovm]

Congrats on your acquisition! This reminds me that I should be friendlier to my neighbors. 

[Son of Marty]

Yeah, pull the starter I'll bet the Bendix is dragging, you are quit correct on a starter being driven by the engine will generate voltage many vintage aircraft used a starterator for weight savings.

[mccusername]

7 hours ago, FunElan said:

I'm hoping to go with some period correct cosmics

 

I've got cheap Cosmics for you but they are in Connecticut.

[FunElan]

On 8/7/2023 at 3:11 PM, Son of Marty said:

Yeah, pull the starter I'll bet the Bendix is dragging, you are quit correct on a starter being driven by the engine will generate voltage many vintage aircraft used a starterator for weight savings.

 

Well yesterday we pulled the starter and bench tested it. It seemed to operate fine on the bench, but we put a little lubricant on the bendix shaft anyway. We then reinstalled it AND installed the freshly rebuilt alternator. And....

 

....the symptoms are the same as before! I'm convinced the SR440x is wired incorrectly. Here's a drawing of how it's currently wired. I'm thinking maybe there's too much resistance or something....

[jimk]

If you add the terminal numbers cast in the bendix to the drawing and compare them to the numbers on the wiring diagram, then wire accordingly, it will be correct.