Looking for Pointers on Potential Purchase

[Stevenc22]

These engines are bulletproof. Plenty of original engines still running strong. If the engine turns over freely, good chance you will be able to get it running. Pull the valve cover, check for broken rocker arms ect... but otherwise if its cheap enough, the engine not running shouldnt be a big problem if you are willing to invest some time and money.

 

[tzei]

+1 what has already been said.

Set a firm limit you willing to spend (lose)

sleep a night over it and if you (and your family) is okay with that then go for it. Oh and about the budget… when ppl says triple it triple it - it’s true!

 

Have fun with your jorney!

[MarcD]

      Buy one sight unseen on the internet and get some sketchy Russian fella to haul it 750 miles to your house. It's way more fun that way.

[TobyB]

Quote

These engines are bulletproof.*

 

*unless they've been run on water instead of coolant,

overheated,

never had the oil changed

never had the valves adjusted

or have more than 100k miles on them.

Then they can need anything from new rings to 

a complete new engine. 

Which is when that LS9 conversion starts to sound fun.

When Honda S2000 motors were in the $2500 range, I seriously

considered buying a few and using them in the race car in SPU.

A stout race engine can't be built for under $10k, and Byron's not

overcharging at twice that for something that makes about what an S2k motor does.

But doesn't last half as long...

 

t

 

[MarcD]

44 minutes ago, TobyB said:

Which is when that LS9 conversion starts to sound fun.

 

3.5 ecoboost and MT82 six speed 🤪

 

[mmaaaaaxx]

15 hours ago, NYNick said:

Figure out how much you think you're going to spend, or want to spend fixing up this car or any other 2002 you buy. Double that budget number and add it to the purchase price. Then go scour the market for 6 months to see what you can buy for that money.

 

Think I'm kidding? Nope. It's reality and will save you hundreds of hours.

 

Thanks @NYNick while I'm comfortable with doing / learning a lot of the mechanicals on my own, project management and budgeting when it comes to car projects is new to me. I do love a a good spreadsheet though, so sounds like I just need to take photos of everything before buying and price out parts and panels.

[mmaaaaaxx]

15 hours ago, Mike Self said:

As I'm sure you know, the big elephant in the room on 2002s is body rust--the structural kind, not cosmetic.  If your potential 02 has spent its life in LA, that shouldn't be too much of a problem, but they still rust there--just not as badly as the Rust Belt or New England.  

 

I'd take a rust free body needing mechanicals over a mechanically excellent car needing rust repair anytime.  Went through that with a friend here in OH--found a surprisingly (structurally) rust free car and helped him go through it mechanically--it ran but brakes, suspension etc all needed attention.  We'd still be messing with it (or he would have given up) if it had been as rusty as my bought-new '69 after 30 Ohio winters.  I think I welded on every panel save the roof and (surprisingly) the floor.  

 

Post pictures and we can provide more help.

 

mike

 

PS -- an early welcome to the 02 fraternity/sorority

@Mike Self I'm going to view the car tomorrow. I'm bringing a jack and bag of tools with me and plan to take more photos than I think I need. Will post them up here for the communities thoughts. 

[mmaaaaaxx]

14 hours ago, OldRoller said:

I have to agree, and probably triple the budget number. Bought a running driving 76 for $6500, now 15K deep into it and still not rolling. Likewise a 74 with a headless seized engine (going to be close to 4K before in and running) with 'almost' no rust, but paint is gone, interior ratty. $4800 for that one, expect to be around the same 15K number. These cars are 50 years old and suffer from age and wear, and often neglect. 

Depending on how much time and your value of that time is, proceed accordingly. Your skills will also affect your decision. If you are adept with your hands around machinery then a relatively sound 02 will be fun. If you have to farm out repairs to body/suspension/engine/etc your budget will be quickly blown. Parts are not inexpensive, and often rare. 

I do all my own work, including body and paint. I enjoy bringing these cars back to purposeful life, but then I am a masochist. Torture me on.

Calculate your decision, and jump. A non runner to tinker with and rescue, or drop a chunk on a fairly sorted ride you can enjoy and fiddle with to make your own? 

Choices we face every day. Makes life a circus! 

Thanks @OldRoller. I'm more of a masochist myself and have space and time on my side. I'm also willing to spend the time and patience to learn anything I don't already know how to do (e.g. welding floor pans, etc.).

[mmaaaaaxx]

12 hours ago, TobyB said:

Nope.  

 

Buy the cheap car, and learn both life and automotive skills.

Buy several more 'parts' cars, and then you have options.

 

Then you know something, AND have a car you trust.

 

(Mike has a fair point about rust, but even THAT can be repaired)

 

t

Thanks @TobyB! With the limited amount of time I've spent on the forum, your posts have been invaluable. Given how relatively simple 2002s are, I'm really excited about all the skills I can teach myself and learn (e.g. electrical, welding, etc.). Apologies in advance for any questions that I reach out to you for, after search all of your old posts.

[mmaaaaaxx]

12 hours ago, tech71 said:

Dont forget the required workspace , expansive property to store those parts cars, equipment (big ass compressor, welders probably, floor jacks, stands)  complement of air tools, regular tools, saint of an understanding wife.

No prob for most folks.

@tech71 one of my best friends has a construction company and has already given me the go-ahead to leave my car in their yard and use their lift for as long as I want 😉.

[mmaaaaaxx]

11 hours ago, Tdh said:

This, plus what @TobyB said. 
Sounds like you have experience working on/modding cars. If you have the space and the tools all that’s left is to decide what you really want (ratty driver, concours resto, non running project to restore, etc.).  Mechanicals are mechanicals, and it sounds like you have a grasp on that part. If you have a manual (and the FAQ) you can figure things out pretty quick.
 

As @Mike Selfpointed out, these things rust. Some of us here don’t mind body work, and have a lower tolerance for rust repair. Others hate it with a passion. It takes some finesse, patients, and work to get right. If you’re in the “hate it” camp, and have to pay someone to get it done it’ll cost some bucks. I suspect you already know that though. 

I buy projects like the one you’re looking at, usually from someone who didn’t have the skills to complete it and got tired of spending money. I generally spend some time looking the car over, I compile a list of all the stuff that’s wrong, and start beating the seller down using said list. The car you’re looking at is a “roundie” but it doesn’t run, and is rusty. “It ran two years ago” means nothing. It could have burned valves and the bottom end could be shot for all he knows. Check the rockers (outside, and underneath), the nose, the floor pans (pull up the carpet if he’ll let you) and check under the rear seat. Look inside the wheel wells. Really pick the thing apart. Try to slowly help him come to the conclusion that it’s a parts car.  If he’s the kind of guy that’s convinced it’s something special that he just won’t take less than some whopping sum for then walk away. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Tdh thanks for your insight. I'm on a similar page to you. I've got the time and space. Given how relatively simple 2002s are, I'm  more than happy to take the time to teach myself new skills such as welding etc.. Hell, nothing can be as bad as trying to discern a vacuum related issue in a W123 Mercedes.  

[Mike Self]

On 8/4/2023 at 2:42 PM, Stevenc22 said:

These engines are bulletproof. Plenty of original engines still running strong. If the engine turns over freely, good chance you will be able to get it running.

+1  A friend and I dragged one home that had been sitting outside in Ohio for 16 years--after we discovered the engine turned over by pulling on the fanbelt (with the plugs out) and the valve chest was clean and unrusted.  Got it running by cleaning out the fuel system and installing a new fuel pump.  

 

mike

 

PS--a good way to learn both mechanical and/or bodyworking skills is your local vo-ed school.  Many have adult night classes where you can work on your own car.  I learned more in one semester of auto body class than I had taught myself in the previous 15 years.   A welding class is also a good thing to take...especially MIG, the best way to weld automotive gauge sheet metal.

[mmaaaaaxx]

Quick update as I went to see the car over the weekend. Unfortunately the car was a far bit worse than the seller and provided photos originally let on. Positives were that all four wheel housings and strut towers appeared rust free. The floor of the car from underneath the car also appeared clean. Now on to the list of negatives.

• Driver side sill ahead of the rear quarter panel was bubbling with rust.
  
• The trunk looks like it was rotting from the inside out. I wonder if the turbo style spoiler was allowing water to seep in.
  
• Bottom of both doors were rotting away.
  
• I couldn't work out how to pull up the rear bench seat, but this is what the base looked like.
  
• It looks like the car was in an accident and the left rear of the car was repaired in.
  
• Guessing this crack along the driver side of the inside of the trunk where the floor meets the rear fender isn't good. Assume prior mentioned accident was the culprit?
  
• Inside of the trunk where the floor meets the rear bulkhead had a crack in it.
  
• Every seal on the car is completely shot and there are multiple 1"+ gaps on both the front and rear glass.
• The car had the original interior and after sitting out in the sun for decades the dashboard was toast and whatever is left of the padding / filling within the seats was crumbling away when I looked at them wrong. 

It was a good experience to spend the hour or so looking at the car in detail, but between the current state and the questions around the status of the engine and transmission (currently non running, so I couldn't check anything) I'm walking away from this one. Also, I think the seller's expectation around his asking price is far removed from reality. 

 

Curious what any of you would even offer for this.

Edited August 8, 2023 by mmaaaaaxx
update photos

[bob02]

I would offer this advice; run, don't walk away from that poor car. Even if you got it for free, you'd be in purgatory indefinitely. Just my opinion, of course! Good luck with your search!

 

  Bob

[popovm]

11 hours ago, mmaaaaaxx said:

Quick update as I went to see the car over the weekend. Unfortunately the car was a far bit worse than the seller and provided photos originally let on. Positives were that all four wheel housings and strut towers appeared rust free. The floor of the car from underneath the car also appeared clean. Now on to the list of negatives.

• Driver side sill ahead of the rear quarter panel was bubbling with rust.
  
• The trunk looks like it was rotting from the inside out. I wonder if the turbo style spoiler was allowing water to seep in.
  
• Bottom of both doors were rotting away.
  
• I couldn't work out how to pull up the rear bench seat, but this is what the base looked like.
  
• It looks like the car was in an accident and the left rear of the car was repaired in.
  
• Guessing this crack along the driver side of the inside of the trunk where the floor meets the rear fender isn't good. Assume prior mentioned accident was the culprit?
  
• Inside of the trunk where the floor meets the rear bulkhead had a crack in it.
  
• Every seal on the car is completely shot and there are multiple 1"+ gaps on both the front and rear glass.
• The car had the original interior and after sitting out in the sun for decades the dashboard was toast and whatever is left of the padding / filling within the seats was crumbling away when I looked at them wrong. 

It was a good experience to spend the hour or so looking at the car in detail, but between the current state and the questions around the status of the engine and transmission (currently non running, so I couldn't check anything) I'm walking away from this one. Also, I think the seller's expectation around his asking price is far removed from reality. 

 

Curious what any of you would even offer for this.

I personally wouldn't offer anything for it, but since that's a roundie it seems like a $3k car. Maybe more since you are in LA? 

 

Walking away was a good call. A plus is that your new hands on experience will help you get a good one.