Looking for Pointers on Potential Purchase

[mmaaaaaxx]

First time posting, but I've been lurking the board for last 12 months or so (only recently created a login). Over the last year and a half I've been helping a friend work on his own 2002 and have fallen in love with the platform due to it's relative simplicity, lightweight, and sporty nature. Over the last few months I've been keeping an eye out for decent project I can work on and slowly make my own. My current car is a 1984 Mercedes 300TD and grew up lightly modifying my old WRX, so I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty.

 

I've spend a number of hours searching the faq / technical articles and have purchased both the Haynes manual and Mike Macartney's Restoration Guide, which have all been invaluable resources. I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on a lot of the basics (e.g. general layout, common rust areas, etc.), but I'm looking for some specific advice on a potential car I've come across. There is 1973 2002 local to me for sale that is pretty cheap, with limited rust in the trunk area (I'm planning to thoroughly check all the usual spots when I go to see the car in person), but currently doesn't run. The seller says he got it running when he first picked it up a few years, but it has been sitting in his driveway for about 2 years as he has too many project cars. I'm planning to try and do a compression test on the car when I go view it, but is there anything else I should specifically do / keep an eye out for? I'm based in LA, so I may just see if the seller is willing to send it out for a PPI at my expense to one of the many local 2002 specialists (e.g. Bavaria Auto Repair, JFPro, Bavarian Workshop, etc.). Thanks for any and all help!

[NYNick]

Figure out how much you think you're going to spend, or want to spend fixing up this car or any other 2002 you buy. Double that budget number and add it to the purchase price. Then go scour the market for 6 months to see what you can buy for that money.

 

Think I'm kidding? Nope. It's reality and will save you hundreds of hours.

[Pdxguy]

34 minutes ago, NYNick said:

Figure out how much you think you're going to spend, or want to spend fixing up this car or any other 2002 you buy. Double that budget number and add it to the purchase price. Then go scour the market for 6 months to see what you can buy for that money.

 

Think I'm kidding? Nope. It's reality and will save you hundreds of hours.

N of one but that has been my experience

[Mike Self]

As I'm sure you know, the big elephant in the room on 2002s is body rust--the structural kind, not cosmetic.  If your potential 02 has spent its life in LA, that shouldn't be too much of a problem, but they still rust there--just not as badly as the Rust Belt or New England.  

 

I'd take a rust free body needing mechanicals over a mechanically excellent car needing rust repair anytime.  Went through that with a friend here in OH--found a surprisingly (structurally) rust free car and helped him go through it mechanically--it ran but brakes, suspension etc all needed attention.  We'd still be messing with it (or he would have given up) if it had been as rusty as my bought-new '69 after 30 Ohio winters.  I think I welded on every panel save the roof and (surprisingly) the floor.  

 

Post pictures and we can provide more help.

 

mike

 

PS -- an early welcome to the 02 fraternity/sorority

[HobieDog]

45 minutes ago, NYNick said:

Figure out how much you think you're going to spend, or want to spend fixing up this car or any other 2002 you buy. Double that budget number and add it to the purchase price. Then go scour the market for 6 months to see what you can buy for that money.

 

Think I'm kidding? Nope. It's reality and will save you hundreds of hours.

This is good advice for some people. Others do enjoy the process of rescuing an abandoned basket case, though.  Different strokes and all that. 

[OldRoller]

I have to agree, and probably triple the budget number. Bought a running driving 76 for $6500, now 15K deep into it and still not rolling. Likewise a 74 with a headless seized engine (going to be close to 4K before in and running) with 'almost' no rust, but paint is gone, interior ratty. $4800 for that one, expect to be around the same 15K number. These cars are 50 years old and suffer from age and wear, and often neglect. 

Depending on how much time and your value of that time is, proceed accordingly. Your skills will also affect your decision. If you are adept with your hands around machinery then a relatively sound 02 will be fun. If you have to farm out repairs to body/suspension/engine/etc your budget will be quickly blown. Parts are not inexpensive, and often rare. 

I do all my own work, including body and paint. I enjoy bringing these cars back to purposeful life, but then I am a masochist. Torture me on.

Calculate your decision, and jump. A non runner to tinker with and rescue, or drop a chunk on a fairly sorted ride you can enjoy and fiddle with to make your own? 

Choices we face every day. Makes life a circus! 

[NYNick]

I enjoyed the process of rebuilding my car, but underestimated the cost.

There are some pretty nice cars out there for sale. Just sayin'.

[Pdxguy]

2 hours ago, HobieDog said:

This is good advice for some people. Others do enjoy the process of rescuing an abandoned basket case, though.  Different strokes and all that. 

Agree completely, if my skill set were more complete I would do more of the work. 

 

Dennis

[tech71]

Assume the worst, saves time later.

Check out the seats closely.. very expensive to refurbish correctly or replace with something suitable.

No matter how much $$ you spend getting it running/driving, it will still suck with crappy seats.

 

If it's a non runner assume the engine is crap, "Ran good when parked" "I got it running before" or any variation on that theme is meaningless drivel. 

So many things you cant check on a non runner like: clutch, trans, heater core for leaks to name a few.

 

Be patient, seriously, for most people, it's better to spend $20,000+ on a running car someone has poured their heart into but unfortunately needs to sell due to circumstance, health, age ect.

Edited August 4, 2023 by tech71

[TobyB]

Nope.  

 

Buy the cheap car, and learn both life and automotive skills.

Buy several more 'parts' cars, and then you have options.

 

Then you know something, AND have a car you trust.

 

(Mike has a fair point about rust, but even THAT can be repaired)

 

t

[tech71]

15 minutes ago, TobyB said:

Buy the cheap car, and learn both life and automotive skills.

Buy several more 'parts' cars, and then you have options.

Dont forget the required workspace , expansive property to store those parts cars, equipment (big ass compressor, welders probably, floor jacks, stands)  complement of air tools, regular tools, saint of an understanding wife.

No prob for most folks.

Edited August 4, 2023 by tech71

[Tdh]

29 minutes ago, tech71 said:

Dont forget the required workspace , expansive property to store those parts cars, equipment (big ass compressor, welders probably, floor jacks, stands)  complement of air tools, regular tools, saint of an understanding wife.

No prob for most folks.

This, plus what @TobyB said. 
Sounds like you have experience working on/modding cars. If you have the space and the tools all that’s left is to decide what you really want (ratty driver, concours resto, non running project to restore, etc.).  Mechanicals are mechanicals, and it sounds like you have a grasp on that part. If you have a manual (and the FAQ) you can figure things out pretty quick.
 

As @Mike Selfpointed out, these things rust. Some of us here don’t mind body work, and have a lower tolerance for rust repair. Others hate it with a passion. It takes some finesse, patients, and work to get right. If you’re in the “hate it” camp, and have to pay someone to get it done it’ll cost some bucks. I suspect you already know that though. 

I buy projects like the one you’re looking at, usually from someone who didn’t have the skills to complete it and got tired of spending money. I generally spend some time looking the car over, I compile a list of all the stuff that’s wrong, and start beating the seller down using said list. The car you’re looking at is a “roundie” but it doesn’t run, and is rusty. “It ran two years ago” means nothing. It could have burned valves and the bottom end could be shot for all he knows. Check the rockers (outside, and underneath), the nose, the floor pans (pull up the carpet if he’ll let you) and check under the rear seat. Look inside the wheel wells. Really pick the thing apart. Try to slowly help him come to the conclusion that it’s a parts car.  If he’s the kind of guy that’s convinced it’s something special that he just won’t take less than some whopping sum for then walk away. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tdh]

1 minute ago, Tdh said:

This, plus what @TobyB said. 
Sounds like you have experience working on/modding cars. If you have the space and the tools all that’s left is to decide what you really want (ratty driver, concours resto, non running project to restore, etc.).  Mechanicals are mechanicals, and it sounds like you have a grasp on that part. If you have a manual (and the FAQ) you can figure things out pretty quick.
 

As @Mike Selfpointed out, these things rust. Some of us here don’t mind body work, and have a lower tolerance for rust repair. Others hate it with a passion. It takes some finesse, patients, and work to get right. If you’re in the “hate it” camp, and have to pay someone to get it done it’ll cost some bucks. I suspect you already know that though. 

I buy projects like the one you’re looking at, usually from someone who didn’t have the skills to complete it and got tired of spending money. I generally spend some time looking the car over, I compile a list of all the stuff that’s wrong, and start beating the seller down using said list. The car you’re looking at is a “roundie” but it doesn’t run, and is rusty. “It ran two years ago” means nothing. It could have burned valves and the bottom end could be shot for all he knows. Check the rockers (outside, and underneath), the nose, the floor pans (pull up the carpet if he’ll let you) and check under the rear seat. Look inside the wheel wells. Really pick the thing apart. Try to slowly help him come to the conclusion that it’s a parts car.  If he’s the kind of guy that’s convinced it’s something special that he just won’t take less than some whopping sum for then

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[popovm]

Not running = consider it a shell. Hope for the best and plan for the worst, i.e. full rebuild. And you can't just login to Jegs and buy a $4000 new motor to drop into these things like you can with a Chevy. A used engine is a gamble and a rebuild is $$$ (relatively). A running engine would add a few thousand dollars to the value of the car so you have to wonder why he hasn't gotten it running first.

 

As everyone is discussing above, what do you want from this project? Do you want to just get it running and driving or do you want a full restoration? If full resto, I'd listen to the folks above and get the cleanest rust free, straight base car you can find. If you just want a fun sporty roundabout and it's ok that it's a little crusty then the car you are looking at sounds decent. Me personally I wanted a project, not a resto so I bought (a little impulsively I might add) a rusty running car. The amount of rust I have found is not terminal, thankfully, but it's a little hilarious. Shock towers are still technically fixable and reproduction panels exist but lots consider them to be terminal. Check those floorboards and inner and outer rockers!

 

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by popovm

[Daily02]

I am just going to reiterate much of this advice. 

1) Have a very clear intention on what you want the finished car to be. 

2) By all means take the car to a BMW Specialist and get an evaluation of its true condition, and a quote for the needed repairs (even if you are going to do the work on your own). It will be money well spent. 

At this point you can make an assessment on whether this project makes sense for you financially with the parts cost, plus contingency for tools & outside services. If they say too rusty then its time to move on.

3) If you want a car that looks nice -read non-patina- check for a cheap -kind of wash & spray- repaint. If this is the case returning the car to a  nice state will require stripping of all the areas where this poorly applied paint resides. This is really terrible if it is around the motor. As said before interior restoration is quite costly on these cars, so make sure and assess your stopping point here well. 

4) If you are looking for a project and life experience -with disregard to cost and time frame. Forget all the above. Then buy it and just enjoy the process of the rescue, and welcome to the community!

 

Regards

 

Dono