Modern fuel ok as it?

[Hans]

YMMV. Literally.

 

[Stevenola]

20 hours ago, AustrianVespaGuy said:

Er. . . *SORT* of.  Per unit density that's true, one gram of ethanol contains 30% less energy than one gram of gasoline, but that isn't quite the whole story.  Gasoline burns at one part gas to 14.7 parts oxygen, however ethanol uses only 9 parts oxygen to 1 part ethanol.  So for a given volume of air (or in familiar terms, once cylinder fillings' worth), you can actually burn almost 50% MORE ethanol per combustion than you can gasoline.  This obviously does two things: it actually makes a *little* bit MORE power (70% power * 150% = 105% power), but you're fuel economy takes a bit hit.  So, just like Obi Wan said, it all depends on your point of view.  You indeed have less energy in the tank, and accordingly can't drive as far.  But on the other hand, it'll go a bit faster until empty!

So taking this a step further, for 10% ethanol fuel, what would stoich be?  14.3?  And if 12.5:1 is the commonly accepted target for max power, what wold this number be with E10 ethanol gas? 12.2 or so?

[jimk]

(14.7 x 0.9) + (9.0 x 0.1) = 

[visionaut]

FWIW, modern turbo motors love the corn. E30 (top octane gas precisely mixed with E85 to yield 30% corn) is a popular option on aftermarket-tuned BMWs that reprogram the DME to significantly increase HP/TQ by running more timing and higher boost than just gasoline.

[jimk]

The Haltech I have will work with a fuel composition meter.  To tune the ECU for it, set up a 4 dimension fuel map for the max ethanol % and the engine can use full or partial tanks of any mixture in between.

[SydneyTii]

Well luckily here in Aus we have 98 all day everyday (as well as all the other flavours) I did notice my Tii didn’t run well on lower octane e10 fuel years ago when I tried it.

[Tdh]

I’ve never had issues with ethanol in old cars, either mine or cars I’ve maintained long term for others in terms of tuning/getting them running right. I’m not prepared to make a statement about rubber bits. I’ve dealt with my fare share of cruddy/rusted fuel tanks, most likely caused by water falling out of solution in the tank full of ethanol/gas but I can’t prove that. What I can tell you for sure is that I own a 2005 Ducati with a nylon fuel tank. Put ethanol in that thing and let it sit and before you know it the tank has swelled so much it won’t fit on the bike anymore. The only fix is to only use non ethanol gas in the damn thing (and to not ride it much!).

Edited July 31, 2023 by Tdh

[visionaut]

2 hours ago, jimk said:

To tune the ECU for it, set up a 4 dimension fuel map for the max ethanol % and the engine can use full or partial tanks of any mixture in between.

Nice Jim. you can get a simple CANBus ECA (ethanol content analyzer) add-on to do similar auto-mapping with these turbo DME tunes. So less concern for the precise measuring to be within target. Without the ‘automation’ you manually use the signal stalk to switch on-the-fly between tune variants optimized for the different typical gas grades and ethanol percents. (91/93/95/E20/E30 US).

 

FWIW - Aussie 98 is like 93 US. They use RON and we use R+M/2… 

[Son of Marty]

First let me start by saying I'm no bleeding heart by any means, but I do find it offensive that first world countryies feel it's OK to turn food into fuel just to support farmers while the rest of the world is in need of food to live, just saying.

[ColinK]

If you want ethanol free gas, go to 

Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada

WWW.PURE-GAS.ORG

---

Pure-gas.org is the definitive web site listing stations that sell pure gasoline in the U.S. and Canada.

 

 

[TobyB]

15 hours ago, Son of Marty said:

First let me start by saying I'm no bleeding heart by any means, but I do find it offensive that first world countryies feel it's OK to turn food into fuel just to support farmers while the rest of the world is in need of food to live, just saying.

 

Yeah, the Ag lobby does little to help the average farmer,

and even less to not destroy the ecosystem.  In the US it's the Mighty Dollar uber alles, as usual.

 

As to mixing oil and water, in a modern car, yeah, the thing can take it.  If we ran straight alcohol, that would be fine.

If we ran straight gas, well, that has obvious problems, but the engines don't mind.

 

It's the mixing that has long term consequences for storage.  The crap they have to use to mix the water- based alcohol

into the oil- based gas isn't very good over time, and fails.  The alcohol absorbs more water, the crap falls to the bottom, and

the 3 part mix will corrode hell out of anything aluminum, plug anything smaller than a squirrel anus, and none of it  burns.

 

I run E0 in everything older than 1995, and find I spend a LOT less time and money fixing and replacing the myriad

small engines we use for all sorts of dumb, environment- destroying things like blowing leaves off the driveway

and digging ditches.  It might be 10 gallons a year, but it saves DAYS of fixing and replacing small carburetors.

 

Just this spring, I've had to dump a gallon of water and a gallon of... sludge... out of my mother- in- law's lawn tractor,

a quart of brown crap out of my mom's 3 little 2- cycle engines, and 5 gallons of E10 I somehow forgot I bought to

get the old truck running.  None would light with a match.  Granted, we live in a damp environment, but,  YECH.

 

t

losing his intrinsic assumption that people think.

[kiva667]

On 8/1/2023 at 11:21 AM, TobyB said:

t

losing his intrinsic assumption that people think.

And it's entirely possible that planting, harvesting, and processing corn into gas results in more atmospheric carbon emissions than the same amount of gasoline would make alone.

However its great for the presidential candidates who go to Frostbite Falls IA before the Iowa primaries and announce, "I support farmers!"

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by kiva667

[Tdh]

1 hour ago, kiva667 said:

 

However its great for the presidential candidates who go to Frostbite Falls IA before the Iowa primaries and announce, "I support farmers!"

 

Meanwhile the rest of the world is planning/building nuclear power plants.

[Son of Marty]

2 hours ago, kiva667 said:

Frostbite Falls IA

You silly rabbit everyone knows Frostbite Falls is in Minnesota.

[TobyB]

16 hours ago, Tdh said:

Meanwhile the rest of the world is planning/building nuclear power plants.

right now, it's hard to see how we're going to get off fossil fuels without them, in the short term.

 

t