Worth upgrading to a different track car?

[AustrianVespaGuy]

So here's my current dilemma: After a few track events, I decided the 2002 wasn't really the best choice for a track car, so I got an E30 for that job.  Stock M20 drivetrain but nicely set up for it, suspension/roll bar/fixed seats/6-point belts/hans/etc.  Been great, but here's the thing: I don't have nor want nor have the space for a tow vehicle and trailer, so I've always kept it street-able/legal. 3 point belts still there, no slicks, and so on.  But now that I've tracked it for a few years I'm starting to wonder. . . would an E36 maybe make a better street/track car?  Would be awfully nice to have REAL air conditioning and since Schroth makes their QuickFit Pro for the E36, I wouldn't need the roll bar for the harnesses anymore and I'd actually be able to USE the backseat!  Then there's the little things like better tire size selections, better parts availability, and a little more power.  I'd also consider an E46 but think I wouldn't be able to get as good of a track build for the price compared to the E36s. But then again, I already HAVE the E30 and it's still good to go. . . Interested in my FAQ support groups thoughts! Reminder on key points: Can't do both, no tow vehicle, and HPDE only, no door-to-door plans.  Thanks!

 

[Mike Self]

By "track events" you mean driving schools and other non-competitive events, correct?  If that's the case, presume you aren't out to "win" anything, just have a good time on the track while improving your driving skills.  Thus you really want to learn how to better go fast in the twisty parts, not the straightaways. 

 

You said your current E30 is both street and track legal/capable.  Remove the back seat (probably already done) and you can carry track tires and a jack easily (more so if it's a 4 door).   And there are plenty of 15 inch wheels in a 4 x 100 bolt pattern, so finding tires shouldn't be as much of a problem as with 13 or 14" wheels.  

 

And...it's already sorted out, so you wouldn't be having to do that all over again with a new-to-you car.  Why trade the devil you know for the devil you don't know...IMHO ?

 

mike

[Lorin]

Multi link E36 rear suspension seems like it would be a nice improvement from trailing arms. 

[AustrianVespaGuy]

44 minutes ago, Lorin said:

a nice improvement from trailing arms

While not wrong, careful about disparaging RTAs around here!  

Half of me is still thinking along @Mike Self's lines, though I will point out if I do this, part of the upgrade will for SURE be going from the 2-doors (E30) to 4!

[bento]

If you’re used to 6 point belts and a fixed bucket, I doubt you’ll be happy with the Quickfit on and OEM seat. While the Quickfit will keep your upper body in place during braking, which is certainly worth it vs 3 point belts, you aren’t nearly as locked in and steady in a soft OEM seat. You’ll still move around laterally, and perhaps even experience your hips slipping forward a bit unless you really cinch down the hip belt. You’ll still be using the steering wheel and dead pedal sto steady yourself in the car, just less.

 

If the car is 80% street/20% track, that might be an acceptable trade off for the benefits you mentioned. If it’s the other way around though, you might find yourself adding the roll bar, fixed bucket and harness later, and right back where you are today, just in a newer car. And that might be fine.

 

[TobyB]

Oh Jesus, 

get over it, build a Spec46, and go racing.

 

So much more fun.  So much more life- consuming.

 

t

can has FormulaMazda?

[Squid's 02]

It's a tough question to answer. I have always loved E30's and they are a blast on the track... a couple thoughts:

 

E30

• The car is already sorted and ready for the track = more track days (if you are spending time and money searching for a new track car you are eating into your track day fund)
• Has the A/C been removed? If not, what will it take to make it more efficient for the commuting side of things
• In regards to race slicks....Many years ago when I was going to the track there were a few 944 guys and E30 guys that had roof racks where they would mount their extra set of track tires, after a few minutes setting up at the track the roof rack was off and the race rubber was on and ready to go. Other guys had the small pull behind trailers that just carried the slicks and tools. similar to these: https://leroyengineering.com/pages/tire-trailers

 

E36

• The ABS may be a nice addition to your track car (assuming the E30 doesn't have it, or it isn't functioning)
• Better suspension geometry
• Better A/C 
• More power

 

 

Which car is cheaper to fix? They both have been going up in value, how inexpensive are engines, cylinder heads, fenders, doors, etc. ?

 

Either car will be a fun track day toy!

 

 Some people enjoy the search and development of the perfect track day weapon even if it eats into the number of track days, other people just enjoy being on the track no matter what the car (even in a Dodge Omni - trust me I was there to witness it)

[tzei]

On 8/8/2021 at 10:38 PM, AustrianVespaGuy said:

the 2002 wasn't really the best choice for a track car

I don’t understand ?

 

a/c? Ok http://www.arcticracingair.com/

 

From a scratch i’d do e36 or e46

but since you have e30 already stick with that.

Edited August 9, 2021 by tzei

[bento]

Some photo inspiration to back up @Squid's 02’s suggestion of a trailer or roof rack. I’ve been considering these options as well, so took photos while at the track when I see something interesting.

 

 

[Squid's 02]

16 hours ago, bento said:

Some photo inspiration to back up @Squid's 02’s suggestion of a trailer or roof rack. I’ve been considering these options as well, so took photos while at the track when I see something interesting.

 

 

 

Love the pics... Really like the White E30 in the background of the 2002 picture. I am a sucker for White E30's. 

[jscaptura1]

Well, how about the best of both worlds!  E36 up front, E30 in the rear!  The picture is of my current track car, 98 318ti with the 6 cylinder swap, zf 5 speed, small case limited slip diff, ground control coilovers with Koni yellows (adjustable), ground control camber plates, all poly bushings in the suspension front and back, Eibach roll bat up front.  Still have the stock seats with the Schroth 4 point harness. Kosei  17 x 8.5 with Ptenza RE71R.  Will be installing a race seat and 6 point roll bar over the winter.  Still street legal so I can drive it to and from events.  It is a BLAST and quite a sleeper at the Glen!  Video is of my son at the Glen in the ti about a month ago with the GVC.

[TobyB]

(chants) S54, S54, S54....

 

Some real input:

 

The E30 abs is deadly, and not very good.  Don't use it.  (Google Ice Ice mode baby)

 

The difference between the E30 and E36 rear suspension is probably measured in 

seconds per lap- it's that much better, and it can take far more power than the trailing arms.

(as in, a stock ti will lap faster than a 318,(it's lighter) but put an S54 in each, and the 318 will be 3 seconds faster)

 

Now, that's not to say that the E30 trailing arms don't make for a fun track car.

There's a dance back there that the E36 just doesn't share...

...but I think the 2002's slightly different geometry's even better.  For fun, that is, not speed.

 

All of the nice E36 parts are starting to get expensive- M3 brakes, S52's etc- but the E46 parts

(M54B30, 330 brakes, etc) are still very cheap, bolt in, and are on a par with the E36M3-

which is a VERY nice track car, btw.

The E46B30 engined cars are very cheap right now, for having the performance of an E36M3

IF you gut the #800 lbs of crap out of them and put springs and dampers on.  

AND do something about that awful traction control (LSD, to start)

 

t

add lightness

 

 

 

[jscaptura1]

May not be quite as quick as an e36 coupe or sedan, but still pretty close, I think..  However, it is a TON of fun.  After driving a ti HARD for 10+ years, is very predictable in its handling. (And still pretty quick,  it's a nice sleeper as well, no one is expecting this little hatchback to blow past them!)

 

[Son of Marty]

Some how this picture seems wrong without a naked man about to shove a shock absorber up his butt.??

 

[TobyB]

it's the ti in the background, isn't it?

 

t