Road going ITB setup

[Dudeland]

11 minutes ago, ray_ said:

as that thread iterates, they ain't good for part throttle response.

 

Cheers,

I forgot to mention that.  Sorry my bad  

[squirt46]

We're trying to do a 'stealth' EFI conversion on our 73 2002, using gutted Weber DCOEs as throttle bodies with injector bosses from Simple Digital Systems welded on their undersides, upstream of the butterflies; an SDS engine management system (fuel, spark, trigger wheel; coil packs, everything), etc.  No true idea if it'll work at all; hopefully it will, and work well.

We're using a Korman intake manifold with 1 inch spacers so that the injector bosses will clear the smaller gear reduction starter (the intakes are interconnected so we're hoping a single tap will allow us a good vacuum signal)  90 degree velocity stacks mounting K&N filters (dang things look like smoke stacks on old transatlantic steamers) to clear the brake booster and work around the 02Again strut brace; no surge tank and a return line to the tank; braided stainless steel lines going from the manifold to the injectors (wrapped in fuel line for abrasion protection and the stealth look); toothed trigger wheel; an empty battery case to conceal the fuel pressure gauge/manifold/etc plus sensors, plus we'll run the battery cables to the fake battery to provide boosting etc. points.  Coilpacks are mounted on the inner fender near the firewall on the passenger side, and the SDS magic box inside the console.  You can see an injector boss welded onto the front carb, plus I laid a spare one on top of the DCOE in one of the pictures.

I'm not sure as to how to label the individual photos, so hopefully things are adequately clear and decently described.  Touch wood, try firing it up in a month or so

[xr4tic]

I've been eyeing the RHD setup:

 

https://racehead.com.au/product/bmw-m10-complete-itb-kit-includes-gloss-carbon-air-box/

 

My concern is it hitting my non-ti booster, pretty sure it wouldn't clear at all.

[jimk]

Something for the ITB map sensing world.  A signal from a combined tube or can setup still will not produce a signal that correctly represents the runner pressure at the end of the intake stroke because the other runners are all at pressures greater.

This a a multi map board that reports the lowest pressure to the ECU.  The lowest pressure is what the ECU needs to correctly compute the air mass.  Other systems kluge the air mass computation

https://github.com/jharvey/MultiMAP

(Need some talent to produce the boards.)

 

[Turn3 Garage]

On 1/17/2020 at 6:51 PM, SydneyTii said:

I’m thinking of going down this route after many years of contemplation.

i have looked at the Jenvey setups both the ones that look like side drafts and the more conventional ITB’s they do.

ive seen the replica Alpina later inlet manifold paired with Jenvey ITB’s

ive seen a standard kuglefischer pump paired with Jenvey ITB’s.

so please could I get some feedback and pics on anyone’s setup or options.

It will go on a Tii engine euro spec, possibly some very light head work with valve seat cutting?

so cam, spark management, filtration advice will be good.

id like to keep the drive ability of the car, but would like a torquey fun motor if that makes sense.

My brother in law had an A4s which was fabulous, so something along those lines, it does not need to be original A4 induction.

i don’t want to over think this, it could be quite straight forward “ish” probably deluding myself there?

TIA guys.

Great thread, good luck on this project!

You're gonna need more fuel. The A4 pump is tuned with a curve matched to the demands of those ITBs. If you can replicate the Alpina intake, presumably an Alpina-spec pump curve would get you in the ballpark. So long as you can find a Kugelfischer wizard to whip up a hotter pump for you, or otherwise alter your linkage to create a similar effect.

We chose to overlay a standalone EFI system that could be effectively tuned. It wasn't straightforward but we're almost done with round 2 of testing and revision. Past my bedtime but happy to talk more about this soon, relevant to my interests. ?

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Turn3 Garage

[irdave]

On 1/31/2020 at 1:32 PM, jimk said:

Something for the ITB map sensing world.  A signal from a combined tube or can setup still will not produce a signal that correctly represents the runner pressure at the end of the intake stroke because the other runners are all at pressures greater.

This a a multi map board that reports the lowest pressure to the ECU.  The lowest pressure is what the ECU needs to correctly compute the air mass.  Other systems kluge the air mass computation

https://github.com/jharvey/MultiMAP

(Need some talent to produce the boards.)

 

 

Jim, I know a guy here in town that makes boards...

[jimk]

1 hour ago, irdave said:

 

Jim, I know a guy here in town that makes boards...

I should talk to you about it.

I don't need these but it would produce a straight line plot of the injection pulse width instead of a ski jump curve for ITBs and MAP load sensing.  I have graphs that demonstrate the issue.  Grouping the sensing tubes doesn't solve the problem.

I checked the current pricing of the parts list and it's about $90 + the board cost.

[Healey3000]

On 1/18/2020 at 10:15 AM, SteadFast said:

• LS Coils
  • Tried and true, and are cheap to replace
  • Some sort of bracket to mount them somewhere
  • Need a block off plate for the old dizzy

Hi,

 

I've designed a bracket for LS2 coils and I think I posted the CAD file for it as well.  A search should dig it up.

 

Tom at 02again sells a dizzy plug.

[jimk]

How I had the coils mounted in 2012.  I used the GM coil wiring harness and used the mating connector for ease of disconnect.

Edited February 5, 2020 by jimk

[Harv]

I would not use 45mm ITB's again. I'd limit it to 40mm. Remember these are not carbs with a venturi in them. A 40mm opening will flow more than almost any M10 cylinder and head could flow.

 

John

[SteadFast]

On 2/5/2020 at 3:14 PM, Harv said:

I would not use 45mm ITB's again. I'd limit it to 40mm. Remember these are not carbs with a venturi in them. A 40mm opening will flow more than almost any M10 cylinder and head could flow.

 

John

Interesting, I just assumed that 45mm>40mm.  What supporting mods do you have?

[DGJ]

I've loaned out my Weber manuals, but a quick dig around on the Internet shows folks running Weber DCOEs  on 2002s using venturiis in the 32-34 mm range for the 40 and 45 DCOE.  Maximum air flow through a 40 mm throttle body should be a heck of a lot higher than a 45 DCOE with its <40 mm venturi.  The gutted DCOEs we're using for our 'stealth' EFI conversion are 40s.  Fingers are cramping from being crossed for so long, hoping that we can make it work.  Doug. 

[Dudeland]

On 1/23/2020 at 8:28 PM, squirt46 said:

We're trying to do a 'stealth' EFI conversion on our 73 2002, using gutted Weber DCOEs as throttle bodies with injector bosses from Simple Digital Systems welded on their undersides, upstream of the butterflies; an SDS engine management system (fuel, spark, trigger wheel; coil packs, everything), etc.  No true idea if it'll work at all; hopefully it will, and work well.

We're using a Korman intake manifold with 1 inch spacers so that the injector bosses will clear the smaller gear reduction starter (the intakes are interconnected so we're hoping a single tap will allow us a good vacuum signal)  90 degree velocity stacks mounting K&N filters (dang things look like smoke stacks on old transatlantic steamers) to clear the brake booster and work around the 02Again strut brace; no surge tank and a return line to the tank; braided stainless steel lines going from the manifold to the injectors (wrapped in fuel line for abrasion protection and the stealth look); toothed trigger wheel; an empty battery case to conceal the fuel pressure gauge/manifold/etc plus sensors, plus we'll run the battery cables to the fake battery to provide boosting etc. points.  Coilpacks are mounted on the inner fender near the firewall on the passenger side, and the SDS magic box inside the console.  You can see an injector boss welded onto the front carb, plus I laid a spare one on top of the DCOE in one of the pictures.

I'm not sure as to how to label the individual photos, so hopefully things are adequately clear and decently described.  Touch wood, try firing it up in a month or so

Dude blog this... why are you holding out ???  LOL  This is super cool. 

[chargin]

On 1/18/2020 at 6:40 PM, Dudeland said:

You will need some sort of idle air control, or idle control don't forget.   I think you are going to be close to $6-6.5K USD.  I budgeted this much when I took a look at doing the identical setup.    You are at $4K without taxes or shipping on the primary build bits.  I was thinking of springing for the Haltech 1500 due to the fact that I wanted more sensors.   I did a MS3 Gold box for $1K which has more than I could ever use. 

 

$USD

Haltech 750 is $1300

Radium is $600

Jenvy ITB's $2000. 

 

No disrespect to your build. I would love to have it. 

 

Just to kick the Hornets Nest, a S2000 F20c full swap kit is $4000-$5500 for 240hp at easy stock installation ?

 

 

[xr4tic]

26 minutes ago, chargin said:

 

Just to kick the Hornets Nest, a S2000 F20c full swap kit is $4000-$5500 for 240hp at easy stock installation ?

 

 

To stir it up some more, I'm regretting not going that route over rebuilding my M10

 

Maybe on the next 2002......