engine and drivetrain 2002 base exhaust thoughts

[markmac]

I had to re-read my posts.  check.  Pretty sure unless my reading has degraded I didn't suggest you were "hawking" IE gear.  Really I don't care one way or the other.  Hawk away, I say - IE is a great supporter of these cars as well as others.  That said, worthwhile information you posted up.  Maybe somewhere on the IE website that same info is available?  I didn't see it.  If it were my gear that I was selling I would have that pdf (or other pdf's with the dyno info) with the appropriate system you are selling (that's just me though, we live in a society now where people say all sorts of sh&t and can't back it up.  I like back up).  It is worthwhile information I think.  My recollection is that Jerry Stahl suggested in a Roundel interview long time ago that any of his headers with less than 1-1/2 primaries offered no measureable improvement and that with the 1-5/8 was nominal, that was a long time ago so it is possible I got it wrong.  

 

http://www.alpinabmw2002.com

[Simeon]

A lot of commonly accepted advice is based on a tii manifold vs headers of various description when all other elements are the same. Not knocking the product but would be interested to see a dyno run with the IE exhaust fitted to a stock tii manifold to see what contribution the header makes. I think it's fair to say the exhaust makes a bigger impact in terms of low hanging HP fruit.

[Dogpile]

So sorry I have caused issues between other members.

My car currently has header and factory down tube is gone. I understand that the measurable differences between stock manifold and shorty may be 0 but I'll probably go with header and new downtube. Just not sure of exhaust past that

[TobyB]

The stock system IS a tri-Y and works pretty well.  The manifold and downpipe aren't too restrictive- until you hit the

third Y.  Then it's not too hard to go to a 2" system and get decent flow up to what the cylinder head can do at 5500.

 

And it's paid for!

 

I don't think it's worth tossing money at the primary pipes until you've gone pretty far down the rabbit hold in terms of

head work and camshaft.

 

But that's subjective.

 

t

[Chris_B]

I don't know what benefit the resonator provides. I bought a Borla muffler from Summit based on the dimensions and inlet/outlet size. It sounds nice. Performance, I dunno.

[AceAndrew]

So sorry I have caused issues between other members.

My car currently has header and factory down tube is gone. I understand that the measurable differences between stock manifold and shorty may be 0 but I'll probably go with header and new downtube. Just not sure of exhaust past that

 

Don't worry about it, Marc is a great guy and one whom I respect greatly.  The fact that we don't see perfectly parallel to one another on this particular topic will not be an "issue", in fact I'd say in general it's one of the things I like about this community.  There isn't one perfect school of thought.

 

Simeon, Marc asked for system comparisons, I simply obliged with independently-born evidence.

 

And lastly Marc, I'm sorry.  Using the word "hawk" is more born from a personal fear of becoming what I hate, and that is someone on the message boards merely there to be a salesman.  Every time I see it elsewhere, it reminds me of the guy selling chocolate outside the chocolate store (EDIT: or your wife's annoying friend that keeps inviting you to a Tupperware party).  If I find the other information those claims are based off of (I saw them 4 years ago in a dusty folder) I will try to put it up on the IE page.  I recall asking about what Mr.Stahl claimed .... to which my guy vehemently disagreed, interesting.

Edited July 12, 2015 by AceAndrew

[AceAndrew]

double post 

Edited July 12, 2015 by AceAndrew

[cj]

Well said Andrew.

[m-tuner]

the exhaust system is a   SYSTEM any changes are going to make a change to power and tork, too big at the front with stock exhaust  very little change, too big at back with stock front usualy noise,  a stock motor will not see much change with enlarged exhaust , less low end a little top end,  what ever you use,  use stainless, or ceramic coated, china shit you can keep it,    Bruce M-tuner disturbing the naborhood with loud exhaust 50 years

[markmac]

Andrew, Agreed, no apology necessary to me for sure - I don't recall you pushing IE parts on folks (and like I said I personally don't find any offense whatsoever in doing so....IE offers are quality parts at reasonable prices.....now I am the IE pitch guy).  As I suggested, IE supports the o2 to a level that no one else does.  Not to beat it to death (which I am by writing this.... , I think it is a really good thing when a company offers a part (exhaust, suspension, chip or whatever) suggests that it will do "X" ..... and then can back it up (with dyno info or whatever data that supports the claim).  Clearly though in order to do that it takes time and money.  I don't have a street car any longer, when I did though I went out of my way to keep it stock and use BmW OE parts, that is/was my illness and certainly not for everyone.

 

Back to the subject at hand, I think your right, Coupeking is the only offering (SS exhaust) made in USA, he doesn't list the price of his system, I would guess it isn't inexpensive.  The cost for a tii system not including the tii manifold (but everything behind it is about $510 from Max, still pretty reasonable given the quality (and performance) I think.  It is somewhat surprising really they still even offer it.

 

http://www.alpinabmw2002.com

Edited July 12, 2015 by markmac

[arminyack]

I bought a stock exhaust system from Walloth Nesch for $300 shipped. From Germany...and it took 3 days to get to my door! The WHOLE exhaust (mounting, gaskets, bolts.nuts, etc.) just not the manifold. Then I found a Tii manifold for $100. My car is pretty much a stock 1600, so that's why I went the way did. I will be building up another motor that will not be so stock...and I'm probably going to with with those IE Y header on it.

Edited July 12, 2015 by arminyack

[m-tuner]

I have Real tii and ti manifolds, they should have no air injection or threaded ports any where,   20flyinghorses@msn.com

[lilcphoto]

before I swapped my carbs, I had a factory 74 exhaust manifold, with a perhaps aftermarket system at one point (though by no means performance tuned). I swapped the manifold for a home-made (or at least looks home made) header, and noticed a slight lack of low end power with a much better powerband above 4.  Once I had the chance to purchase the IE header back setup, I installed that with the factory manifold. It gained back the low end torque and had the same breathing up high which was nice. Then I had the home-made header adapted to work with the IE stainless and it seemed even better at higher RPM's... All this was done in anticipation for my dual 40's.

 

I enjoyed the additional sound it provided, but I also felt like it was a bit too quiet. Im not trying to get that much attention while I drive around, but its always nice to turn some heads or at least have the ability to set off a car alarm, right?  After having issues with the IE center resonator (Not sure how it happened, but the muffler got hit and the baffle broke off) I had my muffler shop install a glasspack in the middle and a rolled tip at the end. It sounds a little louder, but not extremely noticeable. I'm happy with it, but deep down I want it to be a few decibels louder.

 

I would also like to add, my friend has a (born on the same day) 74 with a 38/38 and the IE exhaust stock header, sounds a bit quieter than mine, but thats to be expected. I also met up with a guy thats done a 292 cam and a few other things, and he has a magnaflow that sounds quite lovely, with just the right amount of raspyness when off the gas, but I'd really want more time with his car to have a good opinion on the sound.

 

All in all, you want a little louder, the IE setup is a perfect match for a few more Decibels and a better tone, but mixing and matching different setups can be quite fun and while a lot of exhausts sound very similar, each have there own personality to add to the car.

 

Terrible gopro audio quality, but you can still decent hear the exhaust I've got now running dual webers: 

[sharedmedia=videos:videos:135]

 

Edited July 12, 2015 by lilcphoto

[Mike Self]

The center resonator is strictly for sound diminution.  Most original 2002 buyers didn't want a loud exhaust system and the center muffler/resonator allows the rear muffler to be less restrictive.  

 

For several years I ran a straight center pipe and an Ansa rear muffler.  Sounded great around town--then I took a two hour interstate trip.  At the end of the return trip my ears rang for several days and at that point I went back to a stock system.  I think a sportier rear muffler coupled with a stock center muffler/resonator would probably be acceptable both in terms of sporty exhaust note without droning you to death on the interstate...but there are a lot of variables to consider, including the sound level of the rear muffler to begin with.

 

Ya pays yer money and ya gets yer choice.

 

mike 

[thinksound_mike]

I just swapped my 74 manifold for a tii one a couple of months ago. I also ordered a complete ansa system to go with it (not installed yet) because I wanted a little bit more of an exhaust grumble. My car is all stock and it's pretty quiet. The down pipe and center are also pretty rusted, hence the replacement.

 

I ended up getting a new down pipe, stock ansa center (hopefully no droning) and the sport exhaust for the same reason Mike mentions above. I've heard that the sport resonator can be too loud for most.