engine and drivetrain VIN Mismatch Concern

[bento]

Help me sleep tonight please;

Curiosity got the better of me today and I sanded through the several layers of paint to check the previously illegible VIN on the inner fender of my car. Well, it doesn't match the steering column tag, door sticker, or engine block, which all do match. My title and registration matches the door/block/column.

The car clearly was hit in the right front at some point, as I can see bondo worm on the inside of the front passenger fender.

Anyway, here are my questions;

1) How likely is it that the portion of the inner fender stamped with a VIN would be replaced as part of a collision repair? Seems like major surgery on a car that's been worth very little until recently. I guess I'm afraid this newly discovered VIN is the true chassis VIN and someone rebuilt it from the car I have title to.

2) Which VIN number location matters when there's a mismatch? All but the inner fender could be swapped easily.

3) How can I verify there aren't any issues with the VIN I uncovered? I'm guessing I need to contact the California DMV. That's where the car spent most of its life until very recently. I'm guessing the answer on this one is on the Web somewhere so I'll start digging on my own.

4) Should I be concerned over this? Would future buyers?

Aside from my time, I can remove most of the extra value I've put into this car at this point but I was planning to start investing in new flours very soon, and paint is part of my plans. I'd like to have a clear understanding of the car's history before I dump more time and money into this project.

[MatthewCervi]

My guess is that someone took everything (engine, interior, doors, etc.) out of a rusty 2002 and moved it to another body which happened to have its own damage to the passenger side.  Regarding value, I wouldn't use this configuration as the basis for a high-dollar restoration because you will have a problem with a serial number mismatch in that case.  However, for a driver-quality car it probably isn't that big of a deal as long as you're up front about it.

[adawil2002]

Could send VINs to info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com

[bento]

My guess is that someone took everything (engine, interior, doors, etc.) out of a rusty 2002 and moved it to another body which happened to have its own damage to the passenger side.  Regarding value, I wouldn't use this configuration as the basis for a high-dollar restoration because you will have a problem with a serial number mismatch in that case.  However, for a driver-quality car it probably isn't that big of a deal as long as you're up front about it.

I had pretty high dollar plans for this car but I wouldn't exactly call it a restoration.

The shell swap is kind of what I was thinking too.

During manufacturing, were all shells painted white and then later the final color? If not, an email to Andreas at BMW Group archive to see if the other VIN started life as a Chamonix car would probably confirm this hypothesis. I already emailed them the titled VIN and verified it belonged to a Malaga (the car's current color) car but there's a lot of white paint in places that wouldn't typically get repainted in a cheap respray.

For my own peace of mind, I'm going to see what luck I have navigating the CA DMV to confirm the chassis VIN is clean.

Not sure if this is liberating or a reason to start over with a different car.

Most of my investment beyond the vehicle purchase price can be unbolted at this point and someone would have a slightly ratty, but mechanically sound, driver and I learned a lot along the way.

Or maybe I cut up the car for a motor swap and toss originality out the window altogether.

[MatthewCervi]

During manufacturing, were all shells painted white and then later the final color?

No, definitely not although the primer would be a contrasting color (my Riviera used a light bluish-gray IIRC). 

[bento]

A bit of googling got me to this URL;

https://www.nicb.org/theft_and_fraud_awareness/vincheck

The newly discovered VIN doesn't come up as stolen or a total loss so I can live with that.

[Mike Self]

If the inner fender area (where the VIN is stamped into the body metal) was replaced, you should be able to find evidence of a weld line somewhere; that would tell you that the stamped VIN came off a parts car as part of either rust or accident repair.  

 

However, damage in that area is usually severe enough to total a car, so the theory of transferring all the pieces from a rusted body shell to the one you now have sounds like a good one.

 

Good luck with the CA DMV...if they're like Ohio's you're not gonna get much help.

 

mike

[TobyB]

If it was me, I'd also try your local friendly DMV subagent.  Since we have private contractors doing

the state's work, I've had very good luck over the years walking in with an honest story and as much paperwork as I

could lay hands on, and seeing what they could find. 

They won't tell you who owned the car(s), but they WILL tell you if there are any brands,

alerts, fees etc on the numbers.

In one case, they solved the problem right there, and in another, did a very polite job

of explaining I was completely SOL, and in neither case did they ask for my name or ID.

 

Yes, in NYS you'd get cuffed and stuffed,. but this is wild wild wikki-wikki Warshington, still...

...where you're considered innocent until you do something REALLY illegal.

 

t

[LimeySteve]

Be careful what you tell the Ca DMV , if you tell them any thing at all, I'd let sleeping dogs lay if I was you  & say nothing .my 02's worth.

Edited January 5, 2015 by LimeySteve

[bento]

If it was me, I'd also try your local friendly DMV subagent.  Since we have private contractors doing

the state's work, I've had very good luck over the years walking in with an honest story and as much paperwork as I

could lay hands on, and seeing what they could find. 

They won't tell you who owned the car(s), but they WILL tell you if there are any brands,

alerts, fees etc on the numbers.

In one case, they solved the problem right there, and in another, did a very polite job

of explaining I was completely SOL, and in neither case did they ask for my name or ID.

 

Yes, in NYS you'd get cuffed and stuffed,. but this is wild wild wikki-wikki Warshington, still...

...where you're considered innocent until you do something REALLY illegal.

 

t

  

Be careful what you tell the Ca DMV , if you tell them any thing at all, I'd let sleeping dogs lay if I was you  & say nothing .my 02's worth.

Thanks Toby & Steve. Sounds like the Washington Subagent is the way to go.

Toby or anyone else with relevant experience; how hard is it to get a lost title application approved?

After sleeping on it, it seems like what I need to do is try to get title to the chassis VIN and register it rather than the VIN I have registered.

I suppose the other option is to buy another shell (perhaps without rust holes in the floor!)and transfer parts over, then register the complete car under the new VIN. I don't really have space for that but it would come with the benefit of allowing me to do a thorough paint job, prior to transferring parts, while driving the car.

[Stevenc22]

Someone was selling blank vin tags. I would replace the fender vin tag with a new one that matches all the other vins and the title.

[skipsfcr]

I think he's talking about the VIN stamped into the fender apron rather than on the aluminum tag.

[M3M3]

Someone was selling blank vin tags. I would replace the fender vin tag with a new one that matches all the other vins and the title.

That won't help much. The real vin is stamped into the cars structure. That stamped vin is what should be on the title, not a vin on any easily replaceable part. Edited January 5, 2015 by mlytle

[bluedevils]

BE smart and don't tell anything to anybody. Find your friend who is an expert welder and knows how to grind and stamp numbers....

[bento]

Someone was selling blank vin tags. I would replace the fender vin tag with a new one that matches all the other vins and the title.

Skip and Marshall are correct, my issue is with the VIN stamped into the fender apron.

I need to gain legitimate ownership of that VIN. Not interested in anything that could be perceived as shady by a future buyer. I don't tend to keep cars forever, so resale is a concern, but so is my integrity.

If I can get title to that VIN, then the blank door sticker and steering column tag are a good idea to prevent future confusion. A mismatched engine VIN is probably okay.

Time to start researching the lost title application process...