engine and drivetrain New to forum! Just purchased 1969 1600! Where to get parts?

[flup]

Hi Everyone!

I just made the leap from e36's to an e6!

I just bought a 1969 1600. I have been looking for a 2002 for a while, and found a 1600 in such great shape (body) that I had to buy it!

I'm looking to do a very complete refresh of the suspension, trans/engine mounts, diff center bearing, and any other common wear/failure point, but have no clue how interchangable 2002/1600 parts are, and could use a fair bit of guidance. Can anyone point me to a reference of which parts are interchangable between the two models and a good source of OEM/aftermarket parts for both?

Thanks in advance!

~Greg

[williamggruff]

Welcome to the gang, and congratulations on your new ride! Lots of parts are interchangeable. It might be easier to discuss parts that aren't interchangeable.

Early cars are 6 volt vs. 12 volt on the later models.

The dash and door cards from early cars are works of art, with more chrome than on the later models. This stuff is interchangeable, but if you've got the early stuff in decent shape, you're ahead of the game.

Early half shafts (rear axle sides) have universal joints rather than CVs, a long neck differential vs. a short neck, and a drive shaft with sliding collars and multiple guibos vs. fixed length sections and a single guibo. All of this stuff can be swapped.

Early cars have a mechanical clutch and old skool brake booster. You may find you have one of several varieties of brake fluid reservoir, depending on what was available when your car was built, or what's been replaced over the past 45 years. The clutch can be updated to the hydraulic master and slave variety, but you'll want to get an updated pedal box to make the change. The brake system can be updated as well.

The early Getrag 232 4-speed transmissions had some crappy Porsche synchros, whereas the later Getrag 242/18 4-speed got Borg synchros that last longer. The transmissions are interchangeable.

The early 1600's have a relatively light chassis compared with the later model cars, which is great for racing, but also more susceptible to being crunched in a collision.

For OEM parts, contact BluntTech.com / steve@blunttech.com. There's simply no better source for OEM parts. Blunt's customer service is a shining example of how it should be done, and the company's prices are very competitive. Blunt's are regular on the forum, and you can search for his posts using the Forum Search function in the top right of the page. Speaking of which, the Forum Search and Site Search functions are your friends. With limited exception, any question you could ask has been asked, answered, debated, questioned, and probably photographed. Also check out the '02 FAQs on the menu at the top of the page. Many of the common questions and big ticket items (brake upgrade, 5-speed conversion, torque specs, etc.) are documented for your reading pleasure.

Best of luck with your project, and POST SOME FRIKKIN PHOTOS OF YOUR NEW CAR!!

[andrey]

I recommend Mesa Performance for OEM parts for your car (they're in Costa Mesa, CA so shipping will be quick to you as well). They don't have much of a website, just call them on the phone (the site has the number) and talk to Jim or Spence and they'll help you out. I've been buying my OEM parts (and sometimes even occasional used stuff like a clutch pedal for an auto-to-manual swap in my E3) from Jim for over 10 years now, they're great and very creative when it comes to substituting some NLA part for something still available and dead honest about BMW M.T.'s parts pricing. In fact tell them Andrey sent you : )

[c.d.iesel]

you have 9 Official BMW dealers plus some indi shops for all the

parts you'll need in your SanFrancisco area

San Francisco Bmw Dealers

Auto Dynamik Independent Bmw Repair

240 6th Ave

San Francisco, CA 94118

(415) 861-8668

Bmw Auto Repair

270 11th St

San Francisco, CA 94103

(415) 255-2400

Bmw Independent Repair-Europa Motor Service

601 Valencia St

San Francisco, CA 94110

(415) 552-0221

Bmw Independent Specialists

1358 Valencia St

San Francisco, CA 94110

(415) 648-1611

Bmw Independent Specialists-Atlas Motors Ltd

3160 Mission St

San Francisco, CA 94110

(415) 285-9800

Bmw Maintenance Sportservice

545 Eddy St

San Francisco, CA 94109

(415) 776-6234

Bmw of San Francisco

1675 Howard St

San Francisco, CA 94103

(415) 551-4207

Bmw Ottowerks

765 Harrison St

San Francisco, CA 94107

(415) 512-1975

Bmw Repairs by Silver Star Auto Service

650 Turk St

San Francisco, CA 94102

(415) 776-8781

Cosmopolitan Motors

980 Folsom St

San Francisco, CA 94107

(415) 546-5640

John Gardiner Automotive Inc

1023 Mission St

San Francisco, CA 94103

(415) 777-1175

Novak Automotive

901 Tennessee St

San Francisco, CA 94107

(415) 826-6354

Payless Car Rental

320 Farrell O

San Francisco, CA 94102

(415) 292-1000

Phaedrus Bmw

1641 Jackson St

San Francisco, CA 94109

(415) 567-8000

[John_in_VA]

Thought that was for tourings.

[c.d.iesel]

we excuse you Greg :

BMW E Codes

E Chassis Code Production Model

E3 2 2500, 2800, Bavaria, 3.0Si, 3.0CSi, 3.0Li, 3.3Li 1968 - 1977

E6 2 1600, 1800, 2000 touring 1973 - 1975

E9 2 2800CS, 2800CSA, 3.0CS, 3.0CSA, 3.0CSi, 3.0CSiA, 3.0CSL, 2.5CS, 2.5CSA 1965 - 1975

E12 5 518, 520, 520i, 525, 528, 528i, 530i, 530 MLE, 533i, M535i 1972 - 1984

E21 3 315, 316, 318, 318i, 320, 320i, 320/6, 323i 1975 - 1983

E23 7 725i, 728, 728i, 730, 730i, 732i, 733i, 735i, 745i (turbo), 745i (South Africa), L7 1977 - 1986

E24 6 630Cs, 630Csi, 633Csi, M635Csi, M6, L6 1976 - 1989

E25 Concept Turbo 1972

E26 5 M1 1978 - 1981

E3 1968-1977 2500-3.3Li Sedan

E9 1965-1975 2500-3.0 CS/i/L Coupes

E12 1972-1981 5 Series

E21 1975-1983 3 Series

E23 1977-1987 7 Series

E24 1977-1989 6 Series

E26 1978-1981 M1

E28 1982-1988 5 Series

E30 1984-1991 3 Series

E31 1990-1998 8 Series

E32 1987-1994 7 Series

E34 1989-1995 5 Series

E36 1992-1999 3 Series

E36/5 1994-1998 318ti (Compact)

E36/7 1997-2002 Z3

E38 1995-2001 7 Series

E39 1997-2003 5 Series

E46 1999-2005 3 series

E52 2000-2004 Z8

E53 2000-2006 X5 SAV

E60 2004-2010 5 Series Sedan

E61 2004-2011 5 Series Wagon

E63 2005+ 6 Series Coupe

E64 2005+ 6 Series Convertible

E65 2002-2009 7 Series short wheelbase

E66 2002-2009 7 Series long wheelbase

E70 2007+ X5 SAV

E71 2007+ X6 SAV

E82 2008+ 1 Series Coupe

E83 2003+ X3 SAV

E85 2003+ Z4 / MZ4 Roadster

E86 2006+ Z4 / MZ4 Coupe

E88 2008+ 1 Series Convertible

E89 2009+ Z4 Convertible Coupe

E90 2006-2011 3 Series Sedan

E91 2006-2011 3 Series Touring Wagon

E92 2007-2012 3 Series Coupe

E93 2007-2012 3 Series Convertible

[tjones02]

Hey, (CD) don't forget A1 Imports right across the Golden Gate Bridge in San Rafael, and... Especialy don't forget Sean Casey and I up here in Petaluma at Casey Motorsports! Website in my signture...

Greg, welcome! We'd be happy to help you with parts, work and or advice from here in nearby Petaluma!

[peterschop]

C.D., what about the good old E10?

BMW E Codes

E Chassis Code Production Model

E3 2 2500, 2800, Bavaria, 3.0Si, 3.0CSi, 3.0Li, 3.3Li 1968 - 1977

E6 2 1600, 1800, 2000 touring 1973 - 1975

E9 2 2800CS, 2800CSA, 3.0CS, 3.0CSA, 3.0CSi, 3.0CSiA, 3.0CSL, 2.5CS, 2.5CSA 1965 - 1975

E12 5 518, 520, 520i, 525, 528, 528i, 530i, 530 MLE, 533i, M535i 1972 - 1984

E21 3 315, 316, 318, 318i, 320, 320i, 320/6, 323i 1975 - 1983

E23 7 725i, 728, 728i, 730, 730i, 732i, 733i, 735i, 745i (turbo), 745i (South Africa), L7 1977 - 1986

E24 6 630Cs, 630Csi, 633Csi, M635Csi, M6, L6 1976 - 1989

E25 Concept Turbo 1972

E26 5 M1 1978 - 1981

E3 1968-1977 2500-3.3Li Sedan

E9 1965-1975 2500-3.0 CS/i/L Coupes

E12 1972-1981 5 Series

E21 1975-1983 3 Series

E23 1977-1987 7 Series

E24 1977-1989 6 Series

E26 1978-1981 M1

E28 1982-1988 5 Series

E30 1984-1991 3 Series

E31 1990-1998 8 Series

E32 1987-1994 7 Series

E34 1989-1995 5 Series

E36 1992-1999 3 Series

E36/5 1994-1998 318ti (Compact)

E36/7 1997-2002 Z3

E38 1995-2001 7 Series

E39 1997-2003 5 Series

E46 1999-2005 3 series

E52 2000-2004 Z8

E53 2000-2006 X5 SAV

E60 2004-2010 5 Series Sedan

E61 2004-2011 5 Series Wagon

E63 2005+ 6 Series Coupe

E64 2005+ 6 Series Convertible

E65 2002-2009 7 Series short wheelbase

E66 2002-2009 7 Series long wheelbase

E70 2007+ X5 SAV

E71 2007+ X6 SAV

E82 2008+ 1 Series Coupe

E83 2003+ X3 SAV

E85 2003+ Z4 / MZ4 Roadster

E86 2006+ Z4 / MZ4 Coupe

E88 2008+ 1 Series Convertible

E89 2009+ Z4 Convertible Coupe

E90 2006-2011 3 Series Sedan

E91 2006-2011 3 Series Touring Wagon

E92 2007-2012 3 Series Coupe

E93 2007-2012 3 Series Convertible

[Slavs]

Depends on the chassis # since 69 was a transitional year for the 1600.

Brakes:

If your car has the longnecck diff, you probably also have the 2 piston calipers which are only interchangeable with all previous year 1600s and the 1968 2002, only, and some Alfa Romeos. If you have the 4 piston calipers, they are the same as most post 68 2002's. The Brake master on the 4 piston caliper 1600's cars is the same as that on all post 68 2002's. Most 69 1600s have the same brake booster as all standard 2002s. The brake master on the 2 piston caliper 1969 1600 is the same as that used on the 68 2002 and many Alfa Romeos. You can also use the BMW 320i brake master on the 2 piston caliper 1969 1600, but it has a different shape brake fluid reservoir. The 66-68 1600's use a completely different booster and brake master which are both mounted at different locations, unfamiliar to most 02 owners who own 69 and later cars. Your rear drums are amaller from those used on all 2002s.

[Slavs]

Driveline:

If your car is equipped with the longneck diff, it's driveline components have very little in common with most 2002's with the exception of the 1968 2002, but it is diffrent as well. If a longneck 1600, you tranny will never fit to any 2002 driveshaft due to the positioning of shift linkage and specific location of the mating point of the shift linkage to the tranny shift fork. You, may however, use the 2002 tranny on the longneck 1600, once you replace the main drive yolk with that of the 1600. If a longneck, your driveshaft is different from all shortneck cars. Even the longneck 1600 driveshafts differ from the driveshaft used on the 68 2002 longneck cars. If your car is a shortneck, your driveline components are the same as the post 68 2002s or all 2002s with a shortneck diff. Most 69 1600s I have seen were equipped with the more familiar CV joiny halfshafts. If not, you may the swap the earlier universal joint halfshafts for the later style, given that your diff flange will accept them (By 1969 the longneck diff flanges were drilled to accept eaither style).

[Slavs]

Clutch:

Your clutch is unlike any 2002 clutch, this includes the flywheel, pressure plate and throwout bearing. It is a leftover of the BMW Neu Klasse 1800. This is the car that shares the same main clutch components with your 1600. They are expensive, but if you look around, you'll find people trying to get rid of them next to nothing. If your car is equipped with the 8 hole flywheel and crankshaft, you may use the 215mm clutch set-up from the 74-76 2002, and 1ll 320i's minus the throuwout bearing in the case of the 320i. But, i doubt a 69 1600 will have a hole flywheel. Your clutch actuation is mechanical. You can convert it to hydraulic, but you will have to replace your pedal box with that of the 2002. Don't forget the hydraulic fluid reservoir and line when doing this. If you inspect and repair any wear to your mechanical cluth actuation, though, you will find it to be very nice and adequate. And you will have less hydraulics to worry about.

The pictured car is my early 69 longneck 1600 (Granada). In anticipation of installing a 5 speed from a 320i, I converted to hydraulic clutch atuation, but I stll use the POrsche synchro early 4 speed. In my opinion it is superior in the way it feels. All later trannies are too "notchy" when shifting compared to the Porsche synchroed boxes where the shift feels like a hot knife through butter.

[Mike Self]

Per the factory:

E-114 -- the original 1600 (which became the) 2002 coupe

E-10 -- the later touring (hatchback) body

Check pages 24-25 and 25-26 of Mobile Tradition's book "The BMW 02 Series, the Cult Car." These pages contain the original design artwork for both body styles and are so labeled.

cheers

mike

[Kpeters]

Congratulations on your new car! There are indeed a lot of differences between later 114's as pointed before.

We are at your service too if you need any parts, please let us know.

Oh and.... pictures!

[flup]

Wow!!

Thanks so much for all the great information! I'm rolling the car outside to get better pictures when I get home tonight, and pics will be up shortly after that!

Quick question: The brakes are not ideal as-is. The previous owner had replaced the front calipers in an effort to address the sponginess, and hasn't touched the rears. In addition, the brake warning light is on, and the rear brake lights aren't functioning. The car does stop pretty well, but pedal feel is awful, and I'm sure if I tried a panic stop it wouldn't be as quick as I would like. I'm thinking of redoing the entire braking system as a pre-emptive effort to ensure I can stop when I want to (seems reasonable to me!), but wanted to ask how many people tried to upgrade to the tii struts and the larger bearings that go along with it. Is it worth the price? Seems awfully expensive for what you're getting.

Pics coming soon!

~Greg

[John_in_VA]

If you replace/refresh your original brake system components you should have adequate braking power.