Distributor Condition Recommends?

[takeyourmarx]

So I'm working my way through this 73' I got a few months back, and have noticed a loud clicking noise that goes along with the engine revs.

It's *seems* that it's coming from the dizzy, because as I move my ear and camera around the engine bay (video), it's definitely loudest in that area.

 

So I pulled out the distributor cap and found quite a bit of wear, I have no clue when it was changed last. I should mention there is Crane XR-3000 electrical ignition and PS91 coil installed by one of the previous owners.  So I'm going to get a new cap and rotor clean up the shaft/sensor area, and new plugs probably while I'm there (edit: what plugs should I be using with this setup), I already did all the spark plug wires which were looking shoddy.

 

 

 

You can see major wear on the rotor an cap. Beside replacement of the rotor and cap, after looking at these photos and hear the video, any think I'm missing that I should take care of, change, or recommended parts given my setup. I get the sense the the rotor was not sparking evenly underneath the cap given the varies pitting and burn marks. But who knows when the were replace last.

Thanks in advance.

Edited August 27, 2023 by takeyourmarx
Video embed doesn't work, removed. And asked recommended plugs.

[2002iii]

I've never seen a rotor like that in a 2002 distributor, doesn't look it has a resistor in it like the original ones. It's probably meant for a 320i. The burn marks on it are concerning.

 

That's a lot of rust inside the distributor, the clicking maybe something to do with the centrifugal advance weights inside the distributor. It could also be that there is to much movement of the distributor shaft up and down do to wear.

[gracer]

The rotor is not timed to the cap.  The burn marks should be in the center to the contact point.

I would take the distributor apart and clean it and then replace all the springs and lube the moving parts.  OR.  Replace the distributor with a 123 unit.  I just replaced my old one on my TII and I am very pleased with it.

[takeyourmarx]

Ok this helps, thanks. I'm learning how this all works along the way (which is why I got the 2002 as a project anyway). So after a quick crash course on distributors, as well as the XR3000, I figured out how to recheck the timing so it's firing correctly. I'll give that a go along with refreshing the whole distributor, I think the lube and springs are definitely dried up and affecting the weights, at least until it warms up. It bogs quite a bit at low rpms as well when cold. So I'm starting to connect the dots of issues a little better I think, BUT now you have me considering a $500 distributor that looks VERY cool and customizable🫠 And I am a sucker for that.

[TobyB]

That's the Stant (NAPA) rotor.  I like it because it has no resistor.

 

What Gordon said about the trigger not being timed to the cap.  

Move the pickup (grey plastic chunk) half the width of the 

rotor's nose clockwise, or the shutter wheel anticlockwise, and then adjust your timing.

 

As to clacking, you have to go deeper.  As in, take the points plate out.

The weights in the base of the distributor wear, and

eventually hit the outer periphery of the distributor itself.

 

t

[Son of Marty]

At this point IMO you have 2 choices, rebuild or have a rebuild done on what you have or buy a electronic distributor. 

[2002iii]

7 hours ago, Son of Marty said:

At this point IMO you have 2 choices, rebuild or have a rebuild done on what you have or buy a electronic distributor. 

Third option buy a good used or rebuilt distributor.

[dlacey]

As others have said, it looks like your rotor arm (high tension) and Optical Trigger (low tension) are not synchronised, causing burning on one edge of the rotor. This is a potential problem with aftermarket triggers.... theres evidence the one edge of your rotor was handling all the sparks as it was not synchronised to point at the dizzy cap terminal when the coil fires. 
This topic is called distributor 'rotor phasing'

in the original Bosch setup this synchronisation/ phasing was mechanically fixed by the placement of the points in the baseplate...no sync adjustment was possible or needed. But in your crane setup, that screw & curved slot in the 3rd picture allows you to vary the sync between the HT and LT ...and in your case thats not adjusted right or has shifted over time.

 

So, you can fix this by buying a new rotor arm and dizzy cap... take the old dizzy cap and use a flat wood drill bit to drill a large hole in the cap (!) . Fit the new rotor and the holey cap and start the engine...use your timing light to look in through the hole to see where the rotor is pointing... ideally you want the middle of the rotor to point at the dizzy cap terminal at idle... both rotor (HT) and the Trigger (LT) mechanically advance at higher revs and you should still have part of that brass rotor blade pointing at the cap terminal.  If its not pointing in the right place, estimate how many degrees it needs to move, and adjust the crane trigger by that number of degrees (you'll have to reset your ignition timing after moving that trigger). Check the phasing with your timing light again...maybe you need a few rounds to get the trigger position set right.

 

Once good, fit the new dizzy cap, double check ignition timing and all is good.

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by dlacey

[dlacey]

 

[takeyourmarx]

As usual, you all are legends, glad I asked instead of just throwing in a new rotor and cap. Few different avenues to go down now here. But main thing I'm hearing is that the whole thing overall needs some love. Thanks!

[popovm]

On 8/27/2023 at 3:24 PM, TobyB said:

That's the Stant (NAPA) rotor.  I like it because it has no resistor.

 

What Gordon said about the trigger not being timed to the cap.  

Move the pickup (grey plastic chunk) half the width of the 

rotor's nose clockwise, or the shutter wheel anticlockwise, and then adjust your timing.

 

As to clacking, you have to go deeper.  As in, take the points plate out.

The weights in the base of the distributor wear, and

eventually hit the outer periphery of the distributor itself.

 

t

 

Any chance the clicking could be the out of phase spark? 

[Son of Marty]

To see if you need a overhaul on your dist. try pushing sideways on the rotor there should be next to no play that way, next try lifting the shaft you can get by with a bit more play that way but not any more than a 1/16 inch, last turn the rotor to work the advance it should move smoothly and return smoothly fail any of these test and it's time to rebuild or replace. From all the rust and the painfully dry felt pad in the center of the shaft something is going on in there that's not good.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Son of Marty

[jimk]

1 hour ago, popovm said:

Any chance the clicking could be the out of phase spark? 

Needs more explanation because there is probably less than a handful of users on here that know what rotor phasing is, but by the burn marks, it surely needs phasing.

[Son of Marty]

Looking at your last 2 pictures enlarged I think the PO put the cap on 180' out so that the locating tang on the side of the one clamp at the top of the pic. was holding that side of the cap up so the rotor was hitting the cap. Notice the bit of red on the tang and the wear pattern around the seating ring of the cap. 

[takeyourmarx]

So just to follow up because I don't like when threads are left hanging. All great info which has helped me understand more deeply how the distributors works.

 

I think the cap had been put on backward by the PO. The ignition cables we reverse of what the cap positioning tang should have been, and likely the source of the clicking. Great catch @Son of Marty. However given the visual condition of the rest of the distributor, I pulled the trigger and ordered the 123 Bluetooth Dizzy. 

 

When I pulled the old one out, there was rubbing noise within the dizzy when I spun it, so it was due for rebuild/replacement. I also pulled out the Crane PS51 coil and replaced it with a new blue Beru coil (apparently the Bosch is hard to find right now everywhere).

 

Put those both in, retimed the engine with a timing light (again something new I learned that was kind of fun), and now she's running even better than before without the clicking or chugging on the short trip I did around the block. Still need to tweak the advance curve and go on some longer drives, but overall pretty stoked.

 

Given the condition of the old dizzy, next I'm going to swap out all the plugs, do a valve adjustment, and clean the Weber 38 which is looking a little gunky.

 

Thanks all who commented. I've been part of other vehicle forums, and this one is by far the most generous to us newbies.