Engine rebuild?

[rdeeble]

Saw this on Ebay this morning....

does this pricing seem a little too good to be true? 
Most folks I have spoken to seem to be in the range of 9-10K for a stock  engine rebuild.
 

BMW 2002 M10 New Rebuilt Engine

WWW.EBAY.COM

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Condition is Remanufactured. We have a M10 Engine for BMW 320i E21 as well. Does not include any accessories or pulleys.

 

[tech71]

Thats been on Ebay for some time.

I could probably bring a similar engine in for that here in my

garage but I dont charge myself labor😉

I hate the term "Remanufactured" even more than "rebuilt"

Remanufactured is restored to factory new specs usually by the "manufacturer"itself or an approved rep. No new pistons, its not a"rebuild" or a"reman"

Having said all that and semantics aside, it could be a decent "overhaul" but I have no direct experience with the seller. Maybe only one way to find out, take the plunge. Reach out to them, ask about the pistons/rings side clearance.

The $1500 core charge must also be considered but I think the fact that they want a core is a positive indication.

 

Actually I dont hate the term "Remanufactured" or "Rebuilt", what I hate is how they are so often inaccurately applied

Edited December 17, 2022 by tech71

[Mike Self]

I'd ask some questions about the rebuild before plunking down $$$:

• since the pistons weren't replaced, how many miles on the engine before the rebuild.
• are the pistons standard, or an over bore?
• was the crank turned, polished or ??
• Standard or oversize bearings?
• were the timing chain sprockets replaced?
• Rocker arms replaced? Rocker shafts replaced
• Valves (esp exhaust) replaced or just ground
• Valve guides replaced? stem seals renewed with the late style seals?
• Head surfaced or at least checked for flatness?
• Pilot bearing replaced?
• flywheel resurfaced?
• condition of ring gear?

I'm sure others will add to the list above, but the fewer items replaced, the less of a "rebuild" or "remanufacture" it is and the more of a refurbishment.

 

mike

[rdeeble]

1 hour ago, tech71 said:

Remanufactured is restored to factory new specs usually by the "manufacturer"itself or an approved rep. No new pistons, its not a"rebuild" or a"reman"

Having said all that and semantics aside, it could be a decent "overhaul" but I have no direct experience with the seller.

 

Thanks that's a very helpful clarification.

 

Here's a separate question - Curious what everyone thinks about the value of a vehicle maintaining same VIN for engine and body? I'm probably about a year out before I can do an engine rebuild (which I am hoping to have Patrick Oneil do for me).  I saved my old m10 from my parts car and could easily drop it off to have rebuilt while I am still driving.

I could however, invest a little more $ and have the spare engine bench tested first, then swaped to drive on it while the "original engine" gets rebuilt (I recognize that bench testing is not 100%).  That would probably be about $2k in additional expense to keep VIN the same should everything go ok (and sadly $3.5 wasted if not) .

Maybe this is a separate topic, how much more valuable is a well maintained late model 02 with original rebuilt engine vs a multi VIN 02?

 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by rdeeble

[tech71]

49 minutes ago, rdeeble said:

Maybe this is a separate topic, how much more valuable is a well maintained late model 02 with original rebuilt engine vs a multi VIN 02?

 

 

Unless its a pristine concourse queen/BAT candidate... probably not much.

Both my 02s will receive other VIN engines but,

I do plan on keeping both original short blocks.

Just in case

Edited December 17, 2022 by tech71

[ray_]

1 hour ago, rdeeble said:

Saw this on Ebay this morning....

does this pricing seem a little too good to be true? 
Most folks I have spoken to seem to be in the range of 9-10K for a stock  engine rebuild.
 

BMW 2002 M10 New Rebuilt Engine

WWW.EBAY.COM

---

Condition is Remanufactured. We have a M10 Engine for BMW 320i E21 as well. Does not include any accessories or pulleys.

 

Terry Sayther can build you a motor for around that price. And he's built more than a few!

 

Cheers,

[BarneyT]

1 hour ago, ray_ said:

Terry Sayther can build you a motor for around that price. And he's built more than a few!

 

Cheers,

Ray is correct, Terry Sayther has rebuilt five for me over the last few years…even let me let me set and watch… . Terry wearing a a T-shirt he had made  saying that I am Skoda car club of America president…

Edited December 17, 2022 by BarneyT

[MarcD]

6 hours ago, rdeeble said:

Most folks I have spoken to seem to be in the range of 9-10K for a stock  engine rebuild.

 

Maybe I'm in the wrong here but that sounds outrageous for a stock M10. That's metric mechanic rally engine money. 

[Conserv]

4 hours ago, MarcD said:

 

Maybe I'm in the wrong here but that sounds outrageous for a stock M10. That's metric mechanic rally engine money. 

Depends on who is doing the rebuild, precisely what needs to be replaced, and the level of the stock engine — stock 9.5 tii pistons, for instance, will cost you appreciably more than stock 8.1 pistons. At this point in M10 history, most pistons need replacement, many (most?) heads are iffy, valves and valves guides may or may not meet specs — but do you really want to put those 200,000-mile valves back in your new engine? I’d say the $9-10K amount is a reasonable estimate for a largely stock rebuild by a known quality rebuilder, assuming, again, that you don’t want to put a lot of 50-year-old parts back into the engine!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[Mike Self]

5 hours ago, BarneyT said:

Terry wearing a a T-shirt he had made  saying that I am Skoda car club of America president…

Heck, Barney, I thought you were the Lloyd club president...

[Jeff Sanford]

I am in the same position. Need complete long block rebuild. I showed that exact same Ebay ad to my shop  here in SC. They advised I avoid based on the information they found through some research. They did not elaborate, but I was not willing to take the chance nonetheless.

[jimk]

12 hours ago, Conserv said:

assuming, again, that you don’t want to put a lot of 50-year-old parts back into the engine!

They might be of higher quality than new ones , really.

[kbmb02]

12 hours ago, Conserv said:

Depends on who is doing the rebuild, precisely what needs to be replaced, and the level of the stock engine — stock 9.5 tii pistons, for instance, will cost you appreciably more than stock 8.1 pistons. At this point in M10 history, most pistons need replacement, many (most?) heads are iffy, valves and valves guides may or may not meet specs — but do you really want to put those 200,000-mile valves back in your new engine? I’d say the $9-10K amount is a reasonable estimate for a largely stock rebuild by a known quality rebuilder, assuming, again, that you don’t want to put a lot of 50-year-old parts back into the engine!

 

Well written, Steve (per usual).

 

For a data point on engine build levels, here's an example of a summary* build spec sheet (*yeah, there's plenty of additional specs recorded - and some secret sauce not shown). -KB

 

 

[rdeeble]

20 hours ago, tech71 said:

Unless its a pristine concourse queen/BAT candidate... probably not much.

Both my 02s will receive other VIN engines but,

I do plan on keeping both original short blocks.

Just in case

That's good to hear - puts it all in a better perspective

[rdeeble]

13 hours ago, Conserv said:

Depends on who is doing the rebuild, precisely what needs to be replaced, and the level of the stock engine — stock 9.5 tii pistons, for instance, will cost you appreciably more than stock 8.1 pistons. At this point in M10 history, most pistons need replacement, many (most?) heads are iffy, valves and valves guides may or may not meet specs — but do you really want to put those 200,000-mile valves back in your new engine? I’d say the $9-10K amount is a reasonable estimate for a largely stock rebuild by a known quality rebuilder, assuming, again, that you don’t want to put a lot of 50-year-old parts back into the engine!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Well put Steve - makes sense