5 speed conversion advice

[fsf517]

Hello Again .  So as I slowly push onward with my 2000CA to 5 speed project.  This is not a car that I have ever drove, but a lifelong re-assembly and resto.   (not an 02) I have purchased a Bluntech kit.  Or most of a kit to be honest.  

My Bluntech parts include a cross-member type Bracket with two small L shape brackets on each end. this appears to need drilling to the tunnel in order to get the placement needed.    I now see they have a horse shoe shaped bracket alternative available that I am considering purchasing rather than drill.   I am not opposed to drilling if the functionality of the install benefits more with the straight crossmember type bracket.  However where the straight crossmember would mount inside the tunnel, There are factory strong bumps in the metal.   The pics will tell the story.

If I choose to drill I think i will end up hammering the bumps down.  could get ugly?  should I just go with a horse shoe bracket?  Or go ahead and drill?  Hammer? 

[tech71]

Some people feel the horseshoe bracket is prone to flexing and possible cracking over time however, I have not seen any evidence of this myself.

Given the fact that your car is not  an 02 there might be other surprises that pop up using the cross member bracket and tabs. I think I would try  horseshoe bracket first, saves you from marring up what is clearly a carefully, lovingly restored tunnel. I plan on using one on Franzi my 71 02

Edited June 5, 2022 by tech71

[fsf517]

thank you tech , really what I wanted to hear.  fred

[M3M3]

Run àway front the u-bracket junk.  Horrible design.  I have seen multiple attempts to use them fail.  Long term driveshaft alignment is impossible as they sag.

 

Do it right.  Install new brackets on the tunnel.

[stephers]

Why use any kit?     You have everything right there to do the job BUT you do need a welder     Been doing 5 speed swaps for over 25 years and will not use any kit unless the customer wants to blow some money    Cut the original brackets off and reweld them further back, cut the original shifter bracket down and reweld it, cut the shifter rod to size and reweld that     No parts needed to but except for some new shifter platform bushings     All original stuff and it all fits without any BS     I do my own powder coating so I powder coat everything after welding      Looks good 

 

Thanks, Rick 

[Mike Self]

WRT the horseshoe bracket--I too had my doubts about using one but it seemed a lot easier than relocating the brackets, which involved removing the front seats and tunnel carpet.  So I used one from the old Autohaus in SLO--that was back in 2004 and 67k miles ago, and so far no problems with either driveshaft alignment, guibo or center bearing failure.  

 

Your (and others') results may vary, but it's been working for me.

 

mike

[jibarnes]

I did mine back in 92 before there was an easy button for all the parts, I had (still have it) a Haynes Manual which has one paragraph with no details and a drawing showing those brackets being moved back so that is how I did it. I just gently ground down the welds until they could be removed then I bolted them in place for the new trans. Your car looks great underneath and this should have been done before restoration to avoid more paint work.    

[zinz]

I don't recommend the horseshoe bracket for the early Coupe. 

 

I had the same thoughts and concerns when I installed the 5 speed in my 2000CS.  I opted for the horseshoe bracket and have put about 7000 miles on it.  I plan to change it out for the proper hanger and brackets.  The horseshoe bracket allows for far too much movement of the transmission.  My transmission bumps the top of the tunnel during startup and hard driving.  
 

 

You will notice also that I had to modify the Blunt kit at the bottom of the turnbuckle tensioner.  The horseshoe interferes with the mounting point and we had to add a spacer and longer bolt to clear the bracket.  That was no big deal.

 

Ed Z

Edited June 6, 2022 by zinz

[tech71]

I plan on using one in Franzi because its the easiest way to get a 245 trans in and determine if the trans is a keeper.

If my 245 was say, back from a visit to Metric Mechanic

with a clean bill of heath, I would install the cross tunnel system.

But its not, It came from a fellow Faqqer who got it from a boneyard.

I dont see a point to drilling, relocating or welding until I know the trans is good. This approach certainly makes reinstalling your 4 speed less painful if your 245 is crap.

It also appears that it wouldn't be too difficult to support the rear of the bracket/remove flex with a couple of tabs(easily fabricated) and four bolts ?

Edited June 6, 2022 by tech71

[Conserv]

BMW even sold, up until recently (NOS examples are probably still floating around), bolt-on versions of the tunnel brackets, so you don’t need to weld — and re-paint. But, as @stepherssays,those old brackets should probably come out anyway. So why not move them back? (I tend to mis-trust anyone who judges me by the beauty of my driveline tunnel. BMW certainly didn’t care if it even got paint… ?)

 

Below, the RealOEM.com parts page and BMW part number, highlighted in green.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[jibarnes]

1 hour ago, Conserv said:

BMW even sold, up until recently (NOS examples are probably still floating around), bolt-on versions of the tunnel brackets, so you don’t need to weld — and re-paint. But, as @stepherssays,those old brackets should probably come out anyway. So why not move them back? (I tend to mis-trust anyone who judges me by the beauty of my driveline tunnel. BMW certainly didn’t care if it even got paint… ?)

 

Below, the RealOEM.com parts page and BMW part number, highlighted in green.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 I have seen the brackets recently, not sure if OEM or copies. Maybe Rogers?

[stephers]

I made a bunch of these awhile ago so you could do a bolt in set up using the original trans mount bracket    I used a floating nut similar to the original set up    I had them all plated yellow bright zinc 

 

Thanks, Rick 

[jimk]

I made my set of brackets (technically called inverted chairs) like stephers, but my nuts were loose.

 

For the lower bolt I used a carriage bolt instead of hex heads thru the floor because so the cross member doesn't hang up on the bolt head.  On the cabin side, I used a fender washer to distribute the load and reduce the possibility of a developing a crack in the floor.

[M3M3]

7 hours ago, tech71 said:

It also appears that it wouldn't be too difficult to support the rear of the bracket/remove flex with a couple of tabs(easily fabricated) and four bolts ?

LOL...and in doing so...you replicate the right way to do it with brackets and don't need the u-bracket....

 

the stock mounting points were designed to take a load straight down.  they were NOT designed to support the twisting load the U-bracket places on them.  they flex under that load allowing the back of the trans to sag/bounce resulting the guibo being misaligned.

 

and....bolting the u-bracket to the stock mountings assumes the mounting surface is level...and at the right height for a 245 trans.   both are very bad assumptions.  BMW did not make them perfectly level and the rear mount point for a 245 is not the same height as for the 4spd trans.

 

just do it right, not the easy way out.  bolt/weld new brackets to the tunnel.  AFTER installing the trans, aligning the DS and marking where the brackets should be placed.  do not bolt them to the tunnel using any measurements you read on the internet or some old manual.

[Einspritz]

I've collected a full set!

Bought the BMW part years ago, cut a pair out of a wrecked car,  then a set from MASSIVE, then the U bracket. I'll decide when the time comes.

 

But not for a 245/5, because that would be wrong.