Kugelfischer zero output has me stumped

[Swiss 2002Tii]

Hey folks, been offline during five weeks of travel, good to be back.

 

Before I left, I had this weird problem - I was driving The FunMobile in town,  This after three great weekends in high mountain passes just tearin' it up.  All was normal; ticking like a Swiss watch, AFR in the zone, just running great.  I ran an errand to pick up some fuel line at the MBZ dealership, and as I coasted into a Visitor space, I let it idle; just as I was reaching to turn the key, it just stopped.  No sputter, no hesitation, just stopped as if I had turned the key (but didn't).  Hmmm. Numerous re-tries, but nothing.

 

My first thought was that I had a relapse of thermal failure on my 123ignition dizzy (after a high temp episode during a traffic jam).  In fact, it appeared that I had in fact lost the spark.

 

Took the bus home, came back and swapped out the coil for the original coil, no spark.  Swapped back in my original dizzy, no spark. 

 

Day 2 in the MBZ Visitor space on the hottest day of the summer in Switzerland, I installed a borrowed known good coil from a Turbo rebuild, no spark.  OK, time to regroup:  I put everything back as it was originally with the 123 and their coil, and armed with a timing light, I confirmed that I had the spark back.  BUT, it still wouldn't turn over.  Confirmed timing, TDC, etc... Actually, if I put my foot all the way to the floor, I could actually get it to fire and run extremely roughly, just barely turning over on maybe one cylinder. 

Bless the nice young receptionist at the MBZ dealership who offered me glasses of water.  I went to the bathroom and realized I looked like a sweaty, wild-haired madman!

 

It was clear at that point that I also had a fuel flow issue, but that was more than I could do in their parking lot, so I got an insurance tow back to the garage.

 

Back in the garage I confirmed that I had fuel flow to the pump, confirmed 28 PSI at the pump per my AEM gauge and a second physical gauge installed to double-check, and flow beyond through the regulating valve at the output.  I pulled the #3 suction valve to the injector and using Pat Allen's Diagnostic Tool, I could enable the fuel pump and verify that fuel was freely flowing through the KF pump.  I put a clear tygon tube over #3 output, and I could cycle the engine with the fuel pump running, but no fuel came out of #3.

I also confirmed free flow of oil from the block to the small inlet hose on the side of the KF pump.

 

That's where I was last month before I left.  Today I had time in the garage to take the top end of the KF apart (well, to the extent I had to, thanks to Hack Mechanic's article about what he learned when he took his KF head apart).

 

I pulled all of the delivery valves and soaked them in carb cleaner, I took all of the suction valves out.  I marked these and kept their orientation , so I knew which was in which cylinder..  #3 was seriously stuck in place, but as I had this one out last month, it must have gotten wedged when I reinstalled it (although it sure seemed to be free-floating to me when I threaded down the hex cap screw).  Per the manual, I used a non-magnetic (ceramic) tweezer.  This is very much like that old board game Operation" when we "Boomers" were kids... it takes patience, and skip that third cup of morning coffee!

 

 

I verified that all of the suction valve springs and delivery valve springs were moving freely.  Two of the delivery valve springs felt sticky, but once I manipulated them, they moved smoothly, and I could blow carb cleaner through them.

I removed the cogged KF belt and cycled the pump and confirmed by cycling the pulley that all four pushrods were pushing properly, something like 1-1.5mm deflection.

 

This photo shows the KF head with three suction valves installed, and you can see the pushrodon #4 where the suction valve is not yet installed.

 

And here is the seat and outlet from the #2 suction chamber.  I filled the whole head with carb cleaner and blew each respective outlet with compressed air and got a chest full of vaporized cleaner that confirmed the pathways were clear.

 

My pretty machined aluminum pulley from 2k2tii

 

 

When I soaked the delivery valves with carb cleaner, I got just a bit of residue.  More than I was expecting actually, as my gas tank is extremely clean, and I recently replaced the filter before the pump and the additional filter I added between the tank and the pump.

 

I buttoned everything up, and gave it another try... nope.  Still won't start.  If I floor it, I can get it to fire on maybe one cylinder.  I pulled the injection hose from #3 again and cycled the motor with the fuel pump enabled and still no fuel.  I would expect under normal operation that I should be getting a jet of gas out of that fitting at high pressure, right?

 

I'm stumped at this point.  I have fuel to the pump, fuel through and out of the pump, all four pushrods are cycling properly, all four suction valves are free-floating, all four delivery valves pass fuel properly, all pathways are blown clear.

 

I have not yet pulled the plenum and removed the injectors, as I am not getting fuel flow that far, so they are not the problem.  The injectors were cleaned and calibrated along with the KF pump by Wes Ingram no more than 2000 miles ago.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Swiss 2002Tii
additional info

[irdave]

Have you tried pulling the spark plugs to see if they're simply fouled?  On more than one occasion this has caused me problems...

[dlacey]

+1 on Dave's ignition point..

Only reason a kugel pump ever 'stops' is the either the input fuel pressure drops or the drive belt fails.....I've never heard of a running pump developing any fault that would stop a car running. It has to be ignition related...especially as at the start of the issue you had some ignition issue....fouled or flooded plugs?? Bad HT lead??

[ray_]

17 minutes ago, irdave said:

Have you tried pulling the spark plugs to see if they're simply fouled?  On more than one occasion this has caused me problems...

 

Good answer.

 

2nd thing that happened with no spark could very well be the thing became well and truly flooded.

 

What spark plugs are u running Mr Swiss?

 

GL,

[SydneyTii]

Incorrectly seated distributor cap, damaged centre pin in the top of the dizzy, bad spark plug, sounds like something electrical/ignition.

Following with interest! Good luck.

[Guest_anonymous]

Any chance the throttle linkages loosened up?

[Swiss 2002Tii]

9 hours ago, irdave said:

Have you tried pulling the spark plugs to see if they're simply fouled?  On more than one occasion this has caused me problems...

 

I'll double-check today, but I pulled nice, clean mocha-brown NGK BP5ES plugs when I adjusted valves a few weeks ago.  I did pull a plug during the spark search, and it was not fouled.

 

4 hours ago, Guest_anonymous said:

Any chance the throttle linkages loosened up?

I thought about that yesterday, but ran out of time.  I'll check that today.

I will go over the ignition system again, as I agree that it is really exceptional for the KF to just stop working in an instant like that.  Now that I have time and the proper tools, I can give it a thorough check.

 

On the fuel delivery, I have pulled #3, and #1 as well, and no fuel is coming through the delivery valve, so it seems a systemic problem.  Has anybody observed how much fuel actually comes through the delivery valve after a few engine cycles?  Thinking about it, if the fuel line is "full", the amount of fuel being pushed towards the injector for any given stroke must be pretty small.  On the other hand, if the flow is tiny, it would take many cycles of the motor to "fill" those lines.  That has not been my experience when breaking the fuel system.

 

I have my original KF pump on hand.  (I bought a pump and had it shipped to Wes along with replacement injectors for cleaning/calibration, so I have a second full set, known good, albeit not cleaned and tested.)

 

I will go through the same exercise of pulling and cleaning the delivery valves, suction valves, and ports, then install it (depending on ignition tests).  Looking everything over, it looks like I can do this (dismount the WUR) without breaking the cooling system.  

 

 

 

[jgerock]

Does your tachometer still work?
 

Is the cold start valve stuck open?
 

I’m betting it’s something electrical.

[jgerock]

13 hours ago, dlacey said:

+1 on Dave's ignition point..

Only reason a kugel pump ever 'stops' is the either the input fuel pressure drops or the drive belt fails.....I've never heard of a running pump developing any fault that would stop a car running. It has to be ignition related...especially as at the start of the issue you had some ignition issue....fouled or flooded plugs?? Bad HT lead??

Bad HT lead or faulty wire at coil.  

[irdave]

14 hours ago, ray_ said:

 

Good answer.

 

2nd thing that happened with no spark could very well be the thing became well and truly flooded.

 

What spark plugs are u running Mr Swiss?

 

GL,

 

Especially as it would run very rough with wide open throttle...  And they can seemingly foul instantaneously, so how they were yesterday isn't necessarily  indicative of how they are today.

[ray_]

Even if the KF belt was broken (which it obviously is not), the motor should fire from the CSV.

 

Right??

 

GL,

[Swiss 2002Tii]

Well, irdave (and others) was right on... the NGK BP5ES plugs were well and truly fouled.  I replaced these with new NGK BP6ES.

 

 

I wanted to start from the beginning in terms of setup, so I pulled the valve cover to verify true TDC on the timing chain as well as the crank pulley.  And yep, yesterday I had installed the KF pulley 180 degrees out using only the pulley mark for reference.  Lesson learned!  I pulled the pulley using my home-made puller.

 

And then, just as I thought I was sliding safe into second base, comes the aggravating part....  I popped the pulley to realign for TDC.  I had everything set up, rotated the pump to line up the woodruff key, and slipped the pulley back on, TDC lined up nicely.  As I tightened down on the pulley nut I expected the pulley to want to rotate; I had a 1/4"extension in the hole to stop the rotation, but, no rotation.  The woodruff key must have pushed rearwards when I slipped the pulley on.  I now have the pulley nut somewhat tight, but the pump shaft is rotating with it as I try to remove the nut.  GRRRR!

I don't have enough room to tap a screw extractor in to bite the steel in the small hole in the pump shaft.  I tried wedging against the bit while turning the nut, but I don't get any "bite" on the hard shaft steel.

So, dead in the water until I have the energy to open the cooling system and pull my radiator! GRRRR!

 

Before I do that, I'm thinking I will try to put the wrench on the nut and bump the engine rotation a bit to see if it will work itself off.  I have to ensure fingers are clear, and no accidental touches on the battery!

 

Suggestions welcome!

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Swiss 2002Tii
additional info

[adawil2002]

I always disconnect the battery working on Vern, my Tii. Simple safety.

[Swiss 2002Tii]

38 minutes ago, adawil2002 said:

I always disconnect the battery working on Vern, my Tii. Simple safety.

Good advice Andrew, but then I can't bump the motor with the starter while holding the wrench.  I will cover the battery during this exercise!  It's either going to work after a bump, or not at all.

[stephers]

I would try and get a an air gun on the nut and see if that will take it off, I don't think bumping the engine will do anything or may cause more headaches