Rear brakes in bad shape. Replace or upgrade?

[jimk]

1 hour ago, TobyB said:

(Jim, I don't think there's a weep hole to outside, as that would be a 'vacuum' leak)

 

So here is today's lesson.

Weep hole marked on the attached.  Take a good look at a master cylinder and the hole is drilled near the mounting flange.  And it will wet the frame if the inner seal is leaking (provided the weep hole is not rusted shut).  The inner seal keeps the fluid in the master cylinder and the outer seal is there to keep the fluid from entering the booster.  The outer seal is mounted in reverse of the inner seal so to seal in the opposite direction. (Just like the inner and outer seals on a 325IX transfer case front shaft).  The fluid gets into the booster when the weep hole is rusted shut.  Clean it out once in a while and save a booster.

[ray_]

They should ought to have put that weep hole at the top for to make it easier to clean!

 

[Seth Horwitz]

Wow. As always, this board doesn't disappoint. I tried to copy and paste each individual post for a response in one message, but that doesn't work, so I apologize for not addressing each one of you directly. 

 

1) Clearly, stock is the way to go if things need to be replaced. AustrianVespaGuy, I most certainly can't tell you why I feel the upgrade is needed. I've tuned more than a few cars that I've owned over the years, and have never done brakes. (Just pads.) I've also never owned a car that's over 40 years old, so I came to the experts for a gut check.

 

2) VWJake and everyone else, I'll make sure that the 17mm adjuster is checked.

 

3) NYNick, I live in the City, but have been on Long Island with family for a few months, and have only gone back once. (That explains the space issue. I have one car in the city, another parked in front of this house, and the 2002 is at the mechanic so I don't need to hear about taking up another space.) My mechanic worked at Rallye BMW a hundred years ago when people were still bringing the 2002s in for service at factory dealerships. He was the head mechanic at Bentley Long Island for awhile, then went out on his own about ten years ago. He's definitely competent, though obviously not a 2002 specialist by a long shot. He works on a ton of mid to high-market stuff. As for the e-brake cables, I believe he physically inspected them, but maybe that was a misunderstanding.

 

4) '76mintgrün'02, the car is an automatic. I'll have him check to make sure the pedal box isn't filling up with fluid, though.

 

5) zinz, I'll have him check the booster. Is it a good idea to just replace both of these? I'd rather not pay for something unnecessary, but if I'm going to do it somewhere, it's on brakes on a car. I've used the phrase "Do you buy the cheapest brakes you can find, or do you do it right? Don't be stupid by looking for a deal on XXXXXXX" quite a bit. It seems pretty applicable when I'm literally talking about brakes.

 

6) jimk, I'll definitely have him check the weep hole. There's no corrosion, so hopefully that's not it. The bones on this car are really good, which is why I knowingly overpaid for it. There's almost no rust anywhere, as the car was in a garage for 85% of its life. Probably more.

 

7) TobyB, I'll probably just hand him your message. Good stuff. jimk, great diagram. I'll pass it on.

 

8) halboyles, I'll give you a shout if it comes to that. When I get to live within 35 miles of this particular car, and I can tinker with it more, it looks like that'll come in handy.

 

Everyone else, thank you much for the other insights. Now, does anyone have any input on a wonky fuel gauge? (Just kidding. I have a bunch of stuff from Search that I've found.) Thanks everyone.

     Seth

[Conserv]

7 hours ago, AustrianVespaGuy said:

 

... Rear discs are only worth it if you can adequately explain to me WHY you want them

+1

 

Well said!
 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[M3M3]

54 minutes ago, Conserv said:

+1

 

Well said!
 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

+2

 

"because they look cool" is not an adequate explanation.....:-)

[Seth Horwitz]

12 minutes ago, M2M3 said:

+2

 

"because they look cool" is not an adequate explanation.....:-)

 

Reminds me of guys who were pulling the stock brakes on an E36 M3 (when they were new) to put on bigger Brembos. There was a turbo kit for the ‘95, and a supercharger kit existed for the OBD-II cars, but few people had them, so the stock brakes were fine. People spent a bunch of money (because over and above the brakes you had to get bigger wheels) just to get some red calipers. 

[Vicleonardo1]

I had my rear drums "upgraded" to the E21version. 

 

Not a life changer. 

[AustrianVespaGuy]

To be fair, I think there are indeed a few (limited) scenarios where a rear disc conversion does make sense, but it's sort of a 'final step' thing, and you'd better really know exactly why you feel it's worth the effort and expense.  I'll even drop a few hints: stopping power is NOT one of them, and while it's certainly doable, if you're concerned about how to keep the parking brake functionality, you're probably ahead of yourself!  But on the other side, I'm really glad my HPDE E30 has rear discs.  As frequently as I'm changing pads/materials, checking for cracks, changing discs, replacing seals, re-greasing things, cleaning, and tweaking bias, yeah, I'd probably go bonkers dealing with drums!  But I don't care that that car doesn't have a functional parking brake, and the drums on my 02 are just fine tearing around Asheville for The Vintage!

[ray_]

Well I don't have to adjust drums twice a year anymore

 

On one car.

 

 

Vintage huh? I don't recall seeing you there last year

 

:D

[TobyB]

Dammit, Jim,

I'm going out to the shed to find me some weepy holes!

 

t

(electric parking brake for the win)

[Buckeye]

I already did. First used a straight pick and then ~0.040" dia. wire. Some trace of rust. Going to spray with PB BLASTER to dissolve trace of rust.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Buckeye
.

[AustrianVespaGuy]

15 hours ago, ray_ said:

Vintage huh? I don't recall seeing you there last year

Oh we were definitely there, but I kinda 'hid' right up front behind the sign!  It was also our first vintage schlepping both kids along which, while chasing my kids around is fun and all, had the downside of preventing me from getting to socialize as much as I normally would have liked to.  Hopefully by October they'll be old enough to give me a little more freedom this year, but we'll see!

[jrhone]

I would fix what you have unless you are going to do some hard driving.  The stock brakes are great, but if you are on them hard like mountain and track driving you will start to heat them up after a while and get brake fade.  I upgraded the fronts to volvo calipers and bigger vented disc and the rears to the e21 bigger drums and wheel cylinders.  Great system for not alot of money but I did the work myself..got alot of used hardware and new pads and shoes.  If you upgrade brakes you MUST do front and rear or it will be unsafe.  DONT upgrade to bigger rear brakes and not bigger fronts or you will lock the rears more easily and imagine stop on the brakes while cornering and the back locks up...not fun.  

 

Im for getting it running right and then you decide if you want an upgrade for the type of driving you are doing.

[Seth Horwitz]

22 minutes ago, jrhone said:

I would fix what you have unless you are going to do some hard driving.  The stock brakes are great, but if you are on them hard like mountain and track driving you will start to heat them up after a while and get brake fade.  I upgraded the fronts to volvo calipers and bigger vented disc and the rears to the e21 bigger drums and wheel cylinders.  Great system for not alot of money but I did the work myself..got alot of used hardware and new pads and shoes.  If you upgrade brakes you MUST do front and rear or it will be unsafe.  DONT upgrade to bigger rear brakes and not bigger fronts or you will lock the rears more easily and imagine stop on the brakes while cornering and the back locks up...not fun.  

 

Im for getting it running right and then you decide if you want an upgrade for the type of driving you are doing.

 

Good stuff, thanks. Yeah, this car is never going on a track, even if I eventually do an engine swap, as I'm so far from a track that I don't get on one very often. When I do, I have something else for that that's both fun in the corners and puts me into the seat a second after I hit the Go pedal. (Those big turbos need a second.) I don't live near any particularly interesting roads, either, so if I'm working the brakes heavily, it's only for a handful of turns before there's nothing left to do and the whole system can cool down. Brake fade won't be an issue. (I hope. I prefer giving mechanics work over body shops.) Thank you much.

[AustrianVespaGuy]

39 minutes ago, jrhone said:

DONT upgrade to bigger rear brakes and not bigger fronts or you will lock the rears more easily

Meh, this is basically true, but there are a few other factors involved. Sure, you don't want a whole lot of rear bias, but due to the very limited selection of rear shoes vs. the much wider selection of front pads it's not all that cut-and-dried.  When I changed to modernish ceramic pads on stock front brakes I found them 'grabbier' and would tend to lock up the fronts a good bit earlier than the rears.  I currently run them with larger 17mm rear wheel cylinders to help compensate and get back to a better 50/50 balance.

Vented front brakes are definitely better for shedding heat though! I use good fluid but on stock rotors will still start to get a little bit of fade by the time I'm getting to the bottom of a mountain run!  But sadly, I don't think the Volvo calipers fit under my 14" Panasports

Edited May 10, 2020 by AustrianVespaGuy