Geez, another Oil thread!

[bmw_e30]

mobil hasn't made proper street oil in over 10 years now since they changed all their formulations

 

2002's like good dino oil like castrol/brad penn 20-50

 

in general good high full synthetic oil is made by:

 

redline (designed/engineered/built in california)

purol (designed/engineered/built in california)

amsoil

driven

luqui moly

motul

 

 

[Jimmy]

2 minutes ago, bmw_e30 said:

mobil hasn't made proper street oil in over 10 years now since they changed all their formulations

 

2002's like good dino oil like castrol/brad penn 20-50

 

in general good high full synthetic oil is made by:

 

redline (designed/engineered/built in california)

purol (designed/engineered/built in california)

amsoil

driven

luqui moly

motul

 

 

 

Citation needed. Mobil changed their formulations for 10w30 and below. 

[Son of Marty]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

 

So many questions:

 

What oil were you running when it failed?

Valvoline 20-50 Filter stock mahle changed every 3k miles religiously.

 

what rpms was it running prior to failure? what valve springs?

Shrick single springs rev's up to 6800 a few times

What failed, the lobes or the bearings or both?

It failed slowly wiped a lobe on the intake side damage to the hardening on the others, no damage to the bearings.

 

Cheers

 

[Vicleonardo1]

 

https://classicmotorsports.com/articles/ask-oil-expert-industry-specialists-set-record-str/

[Jimmy]

2 hours ago, Son of Marty said:

(a bunch of stuff about his cam)

 

Street driven car? My first guess would be idling with high lift and stiff springs killed the cam. I don't know if any oil would have saved it. Too much ZDDP will accelerate wear too, as will changing oil too frequently with high detergent oil, as will dilution...

[Son of Marty]

5 hours ago, Jimmy said:

 

 

Jimmy, I don't know where to start, I live in a town with 2 stop lights and a round about my cars don't idle much. The valve springs were with in Alpina spec's, I believe 3000 miles is the BMW recommended oil change period for dino oil. The Alpina 300' cam is not a high lift cam although it is a high duration cam and does have steep ramp angles. I've built engines for 45 years including 4500 hp race engines from a aircraft engine that produced 1550 hp in stock form, this was clearly a failure of lube oil in a high presure contact area.

[Jimmy]

12 minutes ago, Son of Marty said:

Jimmy, I don't know where to start, I live in a town with 2 stop lights and a round about my cars don't idle much. The valve springs were with in Alpina spec's, I believe 3000 miles is the BMW recommended oil change period for dino oil. The Alpina 300' cam is not a high lift cam although it is a high duration cam and does have steep ramp angles. I've built engines for 45 years including 4500 hp race engines from a aircraft engine that produced 1550 hp in stock form, this was clearly a failure of lube oil in a high presure contact area.

 

Sounds like I guessed wrong. How long ago was this? Which Valvoline product?VR-1 or something else?

 

Cheers.

[Son of Marty]

I lost that cam about 2000 or so right when they reduced the zinc in oil with out it being known b4 there was a lot of internet. I loved  that cam but it hasn't been available for ever.

 

P.S. I don't know if a stock cam  and gear would survive with out the zinc or not.

Edited October 21, 2019 by Son of Marty

[Jimmy]

11 hours ago, Son of Marty said:

I lost that cam about 2000 or so right when they reduced the zinc in oil with out it being known b4 there was a lot of internet. I loved  that cam but it hasn't been available for ever.

 

P.S. I don't know if a stock cam  and gear would survive with out the zinc or not.

 

The thing about ZDDP is that it can only form a protective layer so thick on the metal regardless of the percentage of it in a given oil. It's also a consumable in the oil that gets used up over time.

 

All else being equal, a motor oil with lower ZDDP won't protect any worse on day one than a motor oil with an excessive percentage of it unless it has little to no ZDDP to begin with. It's the rate at which it's depleted (and thus the safe oil change interval) that is impacted by the initial amount in the oil.

 

For example, an oil with 800ppm isn't going to protect a cam 30% less than an oil with 1200ppm, it's going to protect it for a 30% shorter amount of time before the ZDDP is depleted.

 

I have no idea what Valvoline did 20 years ago and it sucks that it wiped your cam. 

 

Cheers.

[bob02]

As far as I can see M1 15/50 still has zinc in the formula. Works for me.

 

Bob

[Mike A]

^^^ correct….actually the Zn concentration in M1 15-50  is 1400ppm

Edited October 21, 2019 by Mike A

[Mike A]

As a general  rule of thumb for the classic car you might want to avoid oil with the  starburst...these are the oils with the 1996- mandated reduction in Zn.  The donut insignia identifies oils with packages that are not meeting mandated reduction in wear additives. You would have to find the spec from the manufacturers documentation to determine additive levels. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Mike A

[albatcha]

https://pqia.org/passenger-car-motor-oil/

 

They have test results for different oils here, not everything but they have quite a bit. They show stuff like ppm of all the different additives and viscosity at different temperatures. I saw here that Walmart full synthetic is actually a pretty good oil based on the testing, I use it in multiple normal cars, not the 2002 though, I use VR1 20w-50 in that.

 

[Mike A]

...and for a very serious short course on the subject see for instance...

 

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair and other Engines,  By Richard Widman

https://www.widman.biz/uploads/Corvair_oil.pdf

[Jimmy]

1 hour ago, Mike A said:

As a general  rule of thumb for the classic car you might want to avoid oil with the  starburst...these are the oils with the 1996- mandated reduction in Zn.  The donut insignia identifies oils with packages that are not meeting mandated reduction in wear additives. You would have to find the spec from the manufacturers documentation to determine additive levels. 

 

Let's not forget that phosphorus is critical to cam wear as well. It's the P in the ZDDP. .08%/800ppm is good for preventing wear on flat tappets up to 600 lbs of valve spring pressure. More (up to 1400ppm) buys you more use between oil changes presuming you're not washing the oil down with fuel. More than that and you cause other problems.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Jimmy
Clarification