02 Values too High

[Fatherof3]

You could do a FWD conversion with Kia engine and automatic transaxle. That would keep the price down

[Slavs]

I don't hold any special admiration for the BMW marque. As far as I'm concerned, BMW doesn't appeal to me after the mid 70s. I've had an e30 325i convertible, and I couldn't wait to get rid of it so that I can focus on my 02s. That thing was inferior in every way, including the "baby six" with the rubber band for a timing chain. I can go on this topic. And, to be frank, I've always had ethical questions concerning BMW, Porsche and Daimler Benz; all contributing to the Nazi war effort during WWII, having relied on slave labor from concentration camps. Many of the managers and engineers simply went on to work in the industry during the post war years. So, while we may admire some of the engineering, lets not forget the sinister side to all of it. While the USA and NATO swept everything under the rug for the sake of winning the German hearts and minds during the Cold War, there are those of us who were directly affected by the slaughter and who will never forget so easily. BMW supplied nearly all radial aircraft engines to the German Luftwaffe. Daimler Benz supplied all inline aircraft engines along with automobile engines. Porsche supplied air cooled engines and jeeps. Many of the Board members, managers and engineers were ardent Nazis. Yes, we drive Nazi cars, like it or not.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Slavs

[D Seattle]

If we lost the war the same would be said of driving a ford, etc., for supplying our war effort. 

 

To avoid a false moral equivalency given how over the top horrific Germany was over and above simply starting (and being) at war, what about Japan?  I suspect there are not many Toyota drivers on this forum but anyone have a Mitsubishi anything.  Any have a Sony radio in their car?  Ferrari ?  And the whole native american thing.  Need I continue?

 

Slavs, your moral point is historically well taken (except your point about the e30 straight 6, widely regarded as one of the smoothest most balances engines there is).  At a point though, it becomes a sins of the father - or here, grandfather thing.  If I want engineering, in Germans I trust.  Food or wine, not so much.  

 

What this thread has now officially become:

 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by D Seattle
typo

[Simeon]

2 hours ago, Fatherof3 said:

You could do a FWD conversion with Kia engine and automatic transaxle. That would keep the price down

 

It would probably perform about the same as well. 

[rcf925]

Why do Politics to often end up in these threads. I come here for car knowledge not politics 101

[conkitchen]

3 hours ago, Slavs said:

 we drive Nazi cars, like it or not.

 

Sportwagen mit zwei Türen. iz sexy nine? 

[Hodgepodge]

On 5/6/2019 at 5:33 PM, Slavs said:

The values of these cars are too high. Most parts and service vendors, especially the newcomers, have adjusted their prices accordingly. And unless you have some serious money, these cars are not for you. I don’t intend on selling my cars, but what some vendors are asking for parts and services is simply “Rape”. I’ve spent the best years of my life building and driving 02s on a budget, including my student days. This is no longer possible, nor is the hobby very fun. There are a lot of helpful and generous 02 comrades out there. But, The 02 community has also been hijacked by flippers, speculators and the melon vendors from the bazaar. That’s my nay-say for the day.

 I collect and restore a lot of cars.  2002s are damn cheap.  Think they are expensive?  Buy an M5.  Or an Alfa.  Or a Mercedes.  It is more about the car aging cycle than anything else and 2002s have hit bottom and are on their way back up.  Sure, you can buy a E93 335i for the same $15k that will buy a pretty nice 2002 but a 2002 won't cost as much to maintain....assuming you are doing the maintaining yourself.  You can buy a basic E39 or maybe even an E46 for the same money, but unless there is an M in the name, where is the  fun in that?  I own a bunch of BMWs now and all I collect are the 2002s, the convertibles, the tourings and the Ms.  Trust me 2002s are cheap.   

[Flamingo 5]

The Values are not high enough 

[lilmo]

4 hours ago, Slavs said:

I don't hold any special admiration for the BMW marque. As far as I'm concerned, BMW doesn't appeal to me after the mid 70s. I've had an e30 325i convertible, and I couldn't wait to get rid of it so that I can focus on my 02s. That thing was inferior in every way, including the "baby six" with the rubber band for a timing chain. I can go on this topic. And, to be frank, I've always had ethical questions concerning BMW, Porsche and Daimler Benz; all contributing to the Nazi war effort during WWII, having relied on slave labor from concentration camps. Many of the managers and engineers simply went on to work in the industry during the post war years. So, while we may admire some of the engineering, lets not forget the sinister side to all of it. While the USA and NATO swept everything under the rug for the sake of winning the German hearts and minds during the Cold War, there are those of us who were directly affected by the slaughter and who will never forget so easily. BMW supplied nearly all radial aircraft engines to the German Luftwaffe. Daimler Benz supplied all inline aircraft engines along with automobile engines. Porsche supplied air cooled engines and jeeps. Many of the Board members, managers and engineers were ardent Nazis. Yes, we drive Nazi cars, like it or not.

 

Comrade Slavs speaks the truth!  Don't forget Carl Bosch.  Bank of England.  US Federal Reserve. Standard Oil.  General Electric. General Motors.  Ford.  Dulles.  Pratt and Whitney.

 

The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.  V. Lenin.
 

[Vicleonardo1]

I am more a science based dude and political ramifications of engineering science can be an excellent way to rabbit hole one's attention from the actual creativity and engineering marvels that did and do occur.

 

Even in the good ol' USA a lot of Military based technology does trickle down to the masses. (more than we like to admit). 

 

Remember it was the German scientists grabbed by the Russians that accelerated the space race and got Sputnik into orbit. It was our German scientists that got us to the Moon.....

 

You will find too many connections in the past that would be able to stain many of the things we take for granted today. It is just better to marvel or nitpick at the engineering feat and tout its strengths and/or weaknesses.  

 

BMW, VW, Toyota, Nissan, Ferrari, Lamborghini etc, found some ways to kick our butts and forced our car companies to get better. Nothing wrong with that. 

 

Russia has found ways to make American Automobiles always look good ?. Nothing wrong with that either. 

 

But what do I know, I ain't Toby.....

 

Cheers! 

[Slavs]

Lilmo, In my eyes you have redeemed yourself, as you are worthy of a Political Commissar. I will look around for that grille for you. I'll let you know what I find in my old stash from the bone yards. If I have it, you only need to pay for the shipping. It's Victory Day after all. Let it serve as a warning to all of those who dare provoke the wrath of the glorious Red Army.

 

The Red Army raises its victory banner over the Reichstag on May 1, 1945. Shortly later, NAZI Germany formally surrendered on May 9th, 1945, 74 years ago from today. The Soviet Union bore the brunt of the fighting, having sacrificed 28 million of its citizens (17 million civilian and 11 million military personnel) to defeat Fascism. This translates to nearly 15,000 people per day for a period of 5 years. This is unprecedented in history. Most of WWII was fought and decided on the Eastern Front where Germany committed 80% of its resources to wage a war of extermination against the Soviet Union. Many Western political, financial and religious institutions supported Nazi Germany’s invasion of the Soviet Union.

[SydneyTii]

I always thought the red army was Arsenal.

Though with today’s news it could be Liverpool!

[conkitchen]

What's worth more, a Russian T35 tank or a BMW 2002 Turbo? 

 

[Slavs]

Well, the Russians produced a few cool cars. I always liked the simple, economical and utilitarian  Lada Niva 4 x 4. It's kind of like the 02 of 4 x 4s.

[Slavs]

You meant a WWII era  Russian T-34. There was never a T-35.

There is one for sale for about $85,000.

 

http://www.mortarinvestments.eu/products/tanks-2/t-34-35

 

The BMW 2002 Turbo might fetch more in today's market.