Help with ordering H4 euro buckets, new

[ssp2019]

Help decipher this.  About to order new H4 euro headlight buckets (not the more common less expensive H4 ) for a 73.  #2 in the diagram.  The Hella original are not available anymore, only the Bosch ones.  The BMW Classic website shows that it comes with the ring #3 in the diagram below, but WallothNesch diagram only shows no ring.  The photo is from Walloth and also shows no ring.  What is that ring for and is it necessary?  Anyone ordered these Bosch recently and do they come with that ring?  Im striving for the euro buckets because they seem to fill the deep grills the way they are supposed to aside from being superior light to the usa sealed beam. Even though mine is a 73, i sourced a nice pair of up to 72 deep grills to replace along with the euro buckets. Part number as far as i know is 63121355004.  many thanks

[John_in_VA]

I wish I knew more to help you, but on a related note I saw these on La Jolla Independent's site recently:

2002 European Headlight Inserts
Want the Euro look for your ‘02 but don’t want the hassle and expense?  Use our direct drop-in replacement original Hella lenses with enclosed city lights to achieve the look with your existing US style buckets! Simply installed at home on your US 1600 or 2002, these lights take the place of your sealed beams and give you the look and advantage of the European H4 lens without sourcing all the hard-to-find parts needed to complete a European headlight conversion.  Just install the H4 lens into your car, add wires from the side-marker in the turn signal to the city light and you’ll be motoring away with the European appearance of city light and extra-bright low & high beams! $125 per pair.

 

http://www.bimmerdoc.com/new-and-special-bmw-parts/

 

[Simeon]

When I took my euro buckets off (trashed reflector RHD admittedly) I don’t remember the #3 ring. Basically the lamp unit looked like the photograph but the seal was a bit less pronounced. Could the ring be the headlight part of the grille? It looks like it has an indent which the grille ring has. 

[MOJOJOY]

Early cars 66-73 - no ring

Late cars 74-76 - black ring

 

[David Layton]

Back in the day, late 70's early 80's, we would simply plug H4's into our '02's and job done.  My last car then was a '72.  My current car is a '73.  Does the '73 have a different headlight mount?  The headlight buckets on the grills are shallow to pass the 2 1/2 mile bumper standard.  

 

The plans for the body this fall is to go Euro sleek which would include using deep buckets.

[ssp2019]

Well, not sure about any other years, but my '73 buckets are shallow to match the shallow grills.  I think in researching old posts on this, these usa lights came with different rings depending on the grills they had, to fill the spaces better.  But my question pertains to the ROW euro lights on pre-74 cars.  It seems they had a support ring to hold the lens in place to its bucket.  As I learn more, i will post what i find.  I will call Walloth and see what they say.  BMW of Atlanta couldn't find the answer, only that there are 10 Bosch units in the States, available.

[02Les]

1 hour ago, chago997 said:

Well, not sure about any other years, but my '73 buckets are shallow to match the shallow grills.  I think in researching old posts on this, these usa lights came with different rings depending on the grills they had, to fill the spaces better.  But my question pertains to the ROW euro lights on pre-74 cars.  It seems they had a support ring to hold the lens in place to its bucket.  As I learn more, i will post what i find.  I will call Walloth and see what they say.  BMW of Atlanta couldn't find the answer, only that there are 10 Bosch units in the States, available.

My first '02 (a '70 Euro) had silver rings on the headlights. As the car was LHD & registered in the UK, I had to change the lenses to RHD for the dreaded MOT. Once I passed the MOT test, back on went the LHD lenses as I was working in Europe. I assumed the rings were to stop the lens/glass from falling out after doing an emergency stop 

[markmac]

The ring is necessary, it trims out the front of the headlight.  The Bosch ring and the Hella rings are different (I am figuring you gathered that).  Rogers tii had both (Bosch  & Hella) euro lights, expensive of course $400 or so as I recall, not sure if they have the trim ring for the Bosch lights, they do have the Hella rings, albeit they are $75/ea.  As I mentioned the ring is really only a finish bit, although it does provide a measure of protection to the gray/white seal.  I am putting together a set of the (Hella) H4's, sourced a pair out of Italy with good patina - no lenses though, my car had one Bosch H4 in it and one Hella H4.  The parts are expensive for sure.  Not sure what your experience is with your local dealer but some around here (SF Bay Area) won't allow you to order Euro parts unless you have the vin number of the car they are going to....

[Einspritz]

I was able to get the Bosch trim rings here in the S.F. Bay area, but as MarkMac said not cheap.

 

PM me if you can't source them easily.

 

Now, if I could stop breaking the lenses trying to install the gaskets with the lenses in the buckets.......

[ssp2019]

That is great.  let me know where you got those Bosch trim rings.  thank you

[Conserv]

7 hours ago, chago997 said:

Well, not sure about any other years, but my '73 buckets are shallow to match the shallow grills.  I think in researching old posts on this, these usa lights came with different rings depending on the grills they had, to fill the spaces better.  But my question pertains to the ROW euro lights on pre-74 cars.  It seems they had a support ring to hold the lens in place to its bucket.  As I learn more, i will post what i find.  I will call Walloth and see what they say.  BMW of Atlanta couldn't find the answer, only that there are 10 Bosch units in the States, available.

 

Let’s not mix apples and oranges.  Shallow grilles are solely a U.S. car phenomenon, from early in the 1972 calendar year until the end of round taillight production in July 1973. And U.S. headlight buckets, quite different from the Euro-spec headlight buckets discussed thus far in this thread, came in one size, a size which persisted from 1966 through 1976. When the shallow grille replaced the deep grille on U.S. cars in early 1972 (the cut-off date and VIN remain hazy), the asymmetric filler ring, that had, from 1966 until 1972, filled the awkward gap between the sealed beam retaining ring and the front lip of the headlight bezel, disappeared. That’s all. It just disappeared. Instead of a gap to fill, the sealed beam headlights protruded partly from the headlight bezel.

 

With the square taillights, the headlight retaining ring turned from silver to black (early examples appear to have had chrome plated retaining rings, but most round taillight retaining rings were probably silver cadmium plated). The U.S.-spec headlight bucket remained the same. The square taillight headlight buckets show different part numbers from the round taillight buckets due to the difference in the color of the retaining ring.

 

Below, front, is one of these asymmetric filler rings used on U.S. cars with deep grilles. This example even retains the feathery gasket that helped to close the gap. Below, rear, is a sealed beam retaining ring, freshly re-plated in clear zinc.

 

And now we return you to your discussion of Euro headlight buckets.... ?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by Conserv

[ssp2019]

Yes, thank you for all your info.  Yes also, mine is a usa model '73 with the shallow grills and us lights.  My intent is to change to the euro H4 complete headlight units that are still available and made by Bosch. I sourced new-to-me deep grills that i will install once i have the new euro H4 assembly. My concern is that in the diagrams from the website in BMW classic and the German WallothNestch, they show that there is a ring that holds the lens to the body of the bucket that is no longer in chrome available, only in black as 74 and up.  like the picture above by Markmac.  I talked to Roger's tii and he can get the whole headlight assembly made by Bosch (the Hella is NLA) but doesn't think it comes with the ring.  I think that ring helps to hold the lens and protects the grey seal as someone above also explained.  They are not for filling in gaps to the grill like in usa models.  Those filler rings you show above are for usa lights, like you correctly explain.

[Einspritz]

15 minutes ago, chago997 said:

That is great.  let me know where you got those Bosch trim rings.  thank you

 

I have a Euro car and have that VIN, my driver's license and DMV registration registered with my friend at the local dealer, and that  is how I can get them here in the U.S. . So give me a part number and I can check for you.

 

Alternatively, there may be other parts houses with a Euro connection, e.g. Roger's Tii, Blunt, La Jolla Independant or Vintage Autobahn..etc....or perhaps Euro parts suppliers e.g. Jaymic., which may have them in stock.

[MOJOJOY]

43 minutes ago, chago997 said:

Yes, thank you for all your info.  Yes also, mine is a usa model '73 with the shallow grills and us lights.  My intent is to change to the euro H4 complete headlight units that are still available and made by Bosch. I sourced new-to-me deep grills that i will install once i have the new euro H4 assembly. My concern is that in the diagrams from the website in BMW classic and the German WallothNestch, they show that there is a ring that holds the lens to the body of the bucket that is no longer in chrome available, only in black as 74 and up.  like the picture above by Markmac.  I talked to Roger's tii and he can get the whole headlight assembly made by Bosch (the Hella is NLA) but doesn't think it comes with the ring.  I think that ring helps to hold the lens and protects the grey seal as someone above also explained.  They are not for filling in gaps to the grill like in usa models.  Those filler rings you show above are for usa lights, like you correctly explain.

You don’t need the ring for the early grills. Just the assembly as pictured above! 

Last 2 pics of my car. No rings and euro buckets 

[ssp2019]

Here's what i have found so far, and thanks to everyone who has chimed in.  The nice man from the german website also helped me figure this out.   Mr. MOJOJOY is partially right.  You don't need the ring for the early deep grills with euro H4 headlights, at lease not for esthetic reasons; the chrome grills covers the edge of the lamps like in his pictures and that of his car.  But, these rings do help to seal the glass lamp to its base and lock it via the metal tabs or bulges on the side.  they are also not shiny or chrome, but of the same material as the bucket part.  You can use the lights without it and many people perhaps do and don't realize it has its purpose.  The post 73 euro cars with black grills do need the ring for holding the lens in place and for esthetics as shown above by MOJOJOY and in the picture i found, since the headlight protrudes out from the grill on these later cars.  I found some images on the german ebay that i copied and included here.  these pics are for Bosch units and you can see the metal ring on some and not on others.  It appears that since many of these headlights are being phased out, the new H4 Bosch units that are still available, don't have this metal retainer ring, the ring is only available in black because it does its job of locking the lens in place but doesn't show on the early cars before 73, and therefore can be used for both early cars with chrome grills and later cars with black grilles that do need it for esthetics too.  This is the truth as i know it, but i can be proven wrong.  Only one way to know for sure will be when i have these new ones in my hand.  Thanks again

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by chago997