brake bled, still spongy

[larryt]

hey gang,

 

so i spent a few hours today on the brakes of the 1600-2. 

 

ive recently fitted new brake lines up front and a new MC. i used a brake bleeding kit with the spare tyre. went over the whole system 3 times, and then went back over the whole thing using the tried and tested someone on the pedal and me on the nips. 

 

we still seem to have a very spongy brake pedal and even though the car does come to a stop after braking, its not very direct at all :/.. 

 

could you please shed some light on this if anyone knows what i can do to get better braking. i should point out that the car wont start at the moment so the servos arent getting the vacuum from the manifold. 

 

thanks 

[71bmr02]

did you "bench bleed" the master cylinder?  Got to get all the air out of the new master cylinder before proceeding on to bleeding the wheel cylinders/calipers.  I'd go into a lengthy discussion of bench bleeding but there are plenty of  you-tube, etc discussions available on the net.

[kmoy2002]

I would suspect an air pocket in the system. When I changed my MC, I did not bench bleed. I filled my reservoir and let the air naturally escape through the hose from the MC to reservoir before I began bleeding. 

 

Are you using a Motive bleeder and what pressure are you pressurizing the system? Are you getting clear fluid on all of the lines and did you ensure you bled all the bleed nipples on the calipers (not sure how many there are on the 1600 but there are a few per caliper on my tii)? Did you ensure all your fittings are tight on the new MC and there is no leaks?

[PaulTWinterton]

How about the adjustment on the rear shoes?  Adjusters should be turned until the shoes grip the drums and then backed-off only enough to release the drums, no more.  This can make a world of difference on braking and pedal-feel.

 

From experience I did not have the need to bench-bleed a new MC.  Maybe just lucky.

[worzella]

When I recently replaced my MC and some lines I did not have pressure bleeder and had not bench bled. Could NOT get a solid feel. Then my brother took an air chuck and covred full resevoir with rag and gently blew air into system till squirted out one open rear bleeder 

 

That seemed to “fill” the MC and then standard pump and release worked great. I just think the holes in the MC fill holes are just too tiny for the gravity bleed of MC some people say works

 

Watch the paint though!!?

[Hans]

Single or dual circuit?

[TobyB]

Dual remote vacuum servos?  Those are a booger to bleed.

 

Pressure bleeding is all I have to add- and you can use a vacuum pump to get the servos to actuate.

 

t

 

[halboyles]

3 hours ago, PaulTWinterton said:

How about the adjustment on the rear shoes? 

+1 on the rear adjustment.

[larryt]

thanks everyone for the ideas, i think the rear shoes defo need adjustment, and also the servos are a bit of a pickle to bleed. i will try again and go over the system once ive got the drum adjusted, seen a few videos on youtube of how to not get any air into the system so will use this extra safe method next. 

 

thanks again

[Tommy]

Also just give it some time. Often after full rebuilt I've noticed that bleeding doesn't seem to success 100%. By just leaving it overnight and bleeding again helps.

Sometimes I have jammed the brake pedal so that it's pressed down overnight and the master cylinder bleeds itself.

[larryt]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

Also just give it some time. Often after full rebuilt I've noticed that bleeding doesn't seem to success 100%. By just leaving it overnight and bleeding again helps.

Sometimes I have jammed the brake pedal so that it's pressed down overnight and the master cylinder bleeds itself.

 

thanks for this will give it another go after a while, let the fluid move about a bit. 

 

it does seem really direct, for example, when we were trying the old method of one on pedal me on the screw, as soon as i crack the bleed screw and the pedal is depressed, there was no air or bubbles just clean fluid. do you think this would be suspect brake shoe adjustment needed. also the brake system hasnt been used properly for over 2 years so i suspect it just needs some use and then bleeding again

[Stevenc22]

I spent a year chasing soft brakes. Eventually i took it to a local 2002 shop. Owner spent 10 minutes adjusting the rear adjusters and then took me for a spin. I nearly went through the windshield when he emergency stopped. That fixed everything.

 

Funny thing is i had adjusted the rear adjusters my self but i guess it take a real touch to get the rears just right.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Stevenc22

[Hans]

I assume this is single circuit?

[NickVyse]

are you bleeding it in the correct order?

[larryt]

5 hours ago, Hans said:

I assume this is single circuit?

 

its a dual ciruit system

 

1 hour ago, NickVyse said:

are you bleeding it in the correct order?

 

im bleeding the top servo first, the bottom servo next, then (RHD) passanger rear, drivers rear, pass front and drivers front. calipers im bleeding inner > outer > upper.

 

is this right or wrong?