Ultimate relays and fuses upgrade

[jerryasi]

Neat and tidy eluded me, having never attempted automotive wiring. Only replaced wire that was compromised by heat and/or wear. Wanted to go overboard with relays, seemed like a common thread. I had an 8-fuse box that I used when I had my engine on a run stand, bought relays from Belmetric, struggled with the wrapping side.

[chargin]

8 hours ago, AceAndrew said:

Any comments/suggestions?

 

Suggestions:

• Battery Cut Off Switch in trunk (W/Super Hot wire for Clock and Radio)
• I like the Larger 10 relay - 15 fuse box for expansion 
• I use this extra insulated speaker wire: 

Monoprice Nimbus Series 14AWG 2-Conductor CMP-Rated Speaker Wire, 100ft - Monoprice.com

WWW.MONOPRICE.COM

---

Monoprice Plenum Speaker Wire is designed to meet the most stringent standards of safety for both residential and commercial applications. The fire-retardant cable jacket bears t

 

[xr4tic]

My car is wired up and running, but not finished.  I haven't touched it all winter, something else is taking up all my time:

 

Here's how it was 2 years ago:

 

Littelfuse HWB18 - 3 relays/fuses, (two for lights, one for fogs (future use)) plus another fuse/relay for the electric fan

Hidden behind the headlight, there will be a cover over this area

 

Here's how it is now after I got the interior in it last year:

 

I made a spreadsheet that mapped old wire colors to new wire colors (for a 76) and how I layed the Bussman out.

 

BMW 2002 Wiring - Google Sheets

DOCS.GOOGLE.COM

---

Sheet1 Orig. color,New Color,Gauge,18,14,12 1,Right Running Light,Gray/White,White,18,Black,Tach,Starter 2,Left Running Light,Gray/Yellow,Yellow,18,Red,Cooling Fan Relay Power (Ignition),Wiper,Fuse Box/Ignition...

 

Some random thoughts/recommendations/things I screwed up, in no particular order.

 

1.  One nice thing about this is that it removes the ignition switch as a current source for all power, now it's handled by 2 relays.

2.  I wired from the outside to inside.  Don't do that.  It's part of the reason I now have a huge bundle of wires under the dash, plus the crimps make for a bulkier harness.

3.  I put in delphi connectors between the fuse box and wiring harness.  Also, don't do that.  It makes for a bulkier bundle of wires under the dash.  The thought was I could pull the harness out of the car in the future by unplugging the fuse box and pulling the connectors through the firewall, but that probably will never happen.  If it did, I would look into DEUTSCH HD30 style bulkhead connectors (The Delphi bulkhead connector was too big/awkward to get it to fit)

4.  The Bussman is too big to fit under the dash panels with the cover on.  You might be able to not use the cover and have it butt up against the under panel.  I may end up having the cover jut out from the dash panels (that I don't even have)

5.  Have a fully assembled interior before deciding what to do.  I had the dash/console/steering column out when I came up with my plan.  Things got tight quick once everything was installed.

6.  In hindsight, I wish I would have put it in the glove box, but I already had the wires crimped together before I realized it, now it won't reach.

7.  When I add EFI, I will need another fuse/relay box, which will most likely end up in the glove box.

8.  I may just leave it as it sits now until I do my ITB/EFI upgrade, and then extend the fuse box to the glove compartment with the EFI stuff.

9.  The original headlight wiring had all power provided by the light switch, I tried to use just 2 relays but have the power provided by the battery, but either my schematic didn't work or I wired it wrong (when I turn on the highs, the highs turn on, but when I turn them off, they don't turn off, the relay is staying energized somehow) or maybe it's a bad relay.  3 relays would work for sure, but it seems like 2 should be doable.

 

I know Andrew mentioned a Miata battery under the rear seat, but I still think this is the best solution:

[chargin]

12 hours ago, xr4tic said:

4.  The Bussman is too big to fit under the dash panels with the cover on.  You might be able to not use the cover and have it butt up against the under panel.  I may end up having the cover jut out from the dash panels (that I don't even have)

5.  Have a fully assembled interior before deciding what to do.  I had the dash/console/steering column out when I came up with my plan.  Things got tight quick once everything was installed.

6.  In hindsight, I wish I would have put it in the glove box, but I already had the wires crimped together before I realized it, now it won't reach.

7.  When I add EFI, I will need another fuse/relay box, which will most likely end up in the glove box.

8.  I may just leave it as it sits now until I do my ITB/EFI upgrade, and then extend the fuse box to the glove compartment with the EFI stuff.

 

I applaud your efforts and planning for the future, $46.99 could help your plan 

 

Amazon.com: Niome 18-way Blade Fuse Holder + 10-way Relay Socket Box Dust-proof for Car Automotive Marine : Automotive

 

 

[xr4tic]

48 minutes ago, chargin said:

I applaud your efforts and planning for the future, $46.99 could help your plan 

 

Amazon.com: Niome 18-way Blade Fuse Holder + 10-way Relay Socket Box Dust-proof for Car Automotive Marine : Automotive

 

It's certainly an option, but not one I am interested in.  It's not water resistant at all, I don't see a single seal on it anywhere.  The Bussman has a seal on the lid (and certainly no vent holes to let dust/water in) and each individual wire has a seal where it enters the bottom (standard automotive stuff)

 

[chargin]

2 hours ago, xr4tic said:

each individual wire has a seal where it enters the bottom (standard automotive stuff)

I hear you, BMW OEM puts them out in the open as you know so I figured I’m more covered than that 

 

fully sealed would be better for sure 

 

 

[AustrianVespaGuy]

16 hours ago, xr4tic said:

something else is taking up all my time:

That something else looks suspiciously like an E39 M5 who's receiving a blower upgrade. . .

[jimk]

Power distribution for car devices are going to PDMs (Power Distribution Module) thus eliminated the relays, one PDM for the entire car interfaced with the ECU via CAN cable and programmed in a single program for both the engine and car control.  Here is the Haltech PDM.

 

[chargin]

10 hours ago, jimk said:

PDMs (Power Distribution Module) thus eliminated the relays, one PDM for the entire car interfaced with the ECU via CAN cable and programmed in a single program for both the engine and car control.  Here is the Haltech PDM.

 

These are really great, but ECU and PDM are a pretty deep investment, like $3500 hardware and maybe 10-20 hrs. tuning/programming PDM 

 

 

 

[Ian]

Actually, pdms aren't that bad.  There are lower priced units as well as high-end, and depending on your installation can be quite stealthy.  A pdm is not for a period-correct restoration, but for a daily driver or track car they can be quite helpful.  

 

I got an AiM pdm for my car to replace the old fuses, relays, and 50 year-old wiring.  The new technology greatly simplifies the wiring as well.  In my case I want it to be fairly innocuous, so I am using the stock analog 2002 switches for windshield wipers, turn signals, headlights, but they feed into the AiM pdm and the pdm controls the actual devices.  To control the functions you set inputs and outputs up in spreadsheet that is uploaded into the pdm.  Some pdms require a standalone ecu but most can be run independent of engine management, and can integrate into standalone ecu's when desired.

 

Setting up a pdm is not difficult, but it can be overwhelming at first.  I found that having a knowledgeable distributor who was willing to answer detailed questions was key to taking the plunge into a pdm.  For me Matt at Trailbrake.com was a wealth of information, and I bought my system from Matt after an extended discussion on what I wanted and what different systems could provide.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Ian

[chargin]

2 hours ago, Ian said:

Actually, pdms aren't that bad.  There are lower priced units as well as high-end, and depending on your installation can be quite stealthy

 

crap, there you go SPENDING my money 

 

??

[Ian]

2 hours ago, chargin said:

crap, there you go SPENDING my money 

??

 

Just doing my part to stimulate the economy!

[Galahad]

I'm trying to get ahold of pato2002 about buying some of the adapters, but I'm not allowed to PM - can you send me a message or something?

[jimk]

On 4/16/2022 at 10:26 PM, chargin said:

These are really great, but ECU and PDM are a pretty deep investment, like $3500 hardware and maybe 10-20 hrs. tuning/programming PDM 

The world changes pretty fast.  I remember the ad where a happy customer as he was leaving the store with a new computer system in boxes, was asked by a salesman if he was interested in an upgrade.

Haltech released a product for $2300 that is an ECU and PDM all in one box.  Box includes all the relays and fused outputs 8A and 25A.  Programming in nothing in addition to setting up an ECU.  Harness is simple, wires only, no fuse box, no rely box.  Connect power cable and a key switched 12v

If starting from scratch it's a lot cheaper than piecing a system.

Edited March 30, 2023 by jimk

[chargin]

9 hours ago, jimk said:

The world changes pretty fast.  I remember the ad where a happy customer as he was leaving the store with a new computer system in boxes, was asked by a salesman if he was interested in an upgrade.

Haltech released a product for $2300 that is an ECU and PDM all in one box.  Box includes all the relays and fused outputs 8A and 25A.  Programming in nothing in addition to setting up an ECU.  Harness is simple, wires only, no fuse box, no rely box.  Connect power cable and a key switched 12v

If starting from scratch it's a lot cheaper than piecing a system.

 

👆 This is a Great product - Haltech R5 Nexus - But lets be clear I think it involves 

R5 Nexus $2,395 

Nexus Harnes $700

8 button key pad $354

Program ECU Fueling on Dyno $1500

Program PDM $1000

 

Basic total without the Haltech Dash $5,949 and Well worth it, if you ad the Haltech dash it also has an option for a GPS antennae, Truly an ultimate electrical upgrade for a Super stable car 

 

 

Haltech Elite 1500 $1495

Haltech Jumper Harness adaptor $399

Program ECU Fueling $1500

 

My car ran on the Honda ECU but on the standalone Haltech it runs Much cleaner and crisper 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by chargin