tires and wheels Tires Squealing On Turns

[paulram]

My terminology is weak so excuse anything that sounds stupid but my tires squeal like crazy when I'm turning (sweeping turn or sharp).  I just replaced a ton of stuff including Bilstein HDs front/rear, IE Stage I springs, Ball Joints, Control Arms, all new Urethane Bushings, new bushings/end links on existing ST Bars front and rear...I also installed the negative camber plate based on the recommendation of Ireland.

 

So the car rides like new and handles well... but it squeals... People look at me in my neighborhood like I'm Andretti, but I'm not going all that fast.  The squeal is misleading to pedestrians....

 

All this work done but I'm still riding on 13" steel wheels with an off brand tire with good tread.

 

My friend says its the camber that is causing this.  Is that the case?  Is it the tires? Something else?

 

Again, the car feels solid in a long sweeping turn, but the squealing is 1. annoying  2. misleading and 3. makes me feel like I'm burning through tires.

 

Thanks.

 

Paul

['76mintgrün'02]

Did you check the toe in?  A tape measure and a couple of pieces of wood will get you close.  I took a couple sticks of wood and rubber bands and attached them to the rims (across the outside of the tires) with little homemade s hooks, then measured front and back.  Crude, but effective.

[John_in_VA]

You don't say which tires are squealing, but if it's the front ones you need to adjust your toe-in, as mentioned above. You can wear out the tires in just a few miles, so get it set to the correct value.

[bwingate]

Check your tire pressure too.

[Mike Self]

And...some tires just squeal more than others.  The harder the rubber compound--done for longer tread life--the more likely they are to squeal.  That's why race tires (very soft, sticky compounds) don't squeal much at all, while those with wear numbers of 6 or 700 will howl like banshees.  Tire tread pattern and age of tires (they get harder as they get older) also figure into the noise factor.

 

mike

[M3M3]

You answered your own question when you said 13 inch off brand tires. No amount of money thrown at the suspension will fix crap tires....

Tires should always be the first upgrade.

[gaius]

Toe-in with vehicle normally loaded* 0.06±0.06"

(1.5±1.5 mm) equals 0° 15'± 0° 15'

 

 

Camber angle with vehicle normally loaded* 2°±20' negative

 

from manual.

[paulram]

New tires are coming but before I go there wanted to see what was going on with the squeal... before all upgrades there was no squeal at all.  I could slide the car through turns worn out suspension and all and it was quiet...

 

I will check the toe before anything....

[KFunk]

The new suspension just transfers far more pressure to the tires.  Before all that momentum just got transferred to the sloppy bushings and body roll, and now all that stuff is solid and the tires are the weak link.  They squeal, and I'm sure they break loose far too easy.

Ya need some high performance softer tires, which is tough to do in 13"  At least some fresher, better tires will help, but this is why many people have went to 14" or 15"+ tires.  The high-perf tires are just hard to find for the small ones.  Even with 14s, it's getting tough.   

['76mintgrün'02]

Did you have the weight on the wheels when you tightened up the suspension bits?

It is recommended that you load the vehicle with weight as well.

I had access to lead weights, so I went ahead and did it that way.

 

 

I did not load the vehicle when I spent $80 on an alignment... which is basically toe only.

The car pulled to the right after that alingnment.  I took it back... still pulled.  "we put it to spec" they said. 

 

I made sticks and measured myself, then took test drives to pull over and twist a little on the tie rods to get the steering wheel centered and going straight down the road.  

 

Squealing was/is not an issue on my six year old off brand tires, with very good tread remaining.  

 

The streets aren't too squeaky around here though, more like mossy.

[2thosd2]

Did you have the weight on the wheels when you tightened up the suspension bits?

It is recommended that you load the vehicle with weight as well.

I had access to lead weights, so I went ahead and did it that way.

 

 

I did not load the vehicle when I spent $80 on an alignment... which is basically toe only.

The car pulled to the right after that alingnment.  I took it back... still pulled.  "we put it to spec" they said. 

 

I made sticks and measured myself, then took test drives to pull over and twist a little on the tie rods to get the steering wheel centered and going straight down the road.  

 

Squealing was/is not an issue on my six year old off brand tires, with very good tread remaining.  

 

The streets aren't too squeaky around here though, more like mossy.

Fyi,  toe out of spec will never cause a "pull" (pull is felt), if anything an off center wheel and tire wear on either the inside or oustide edges. Do you drive more rural "mossy" roads? High road crown? You may be experiencing your car drifting towards the shoulder, due to the shape of the road. Alignment shops can counter this force with an alighnment, but not with a toe only alignment (best done countering with a caster adjustment).

When doing DIY toe adjustment, make sure you get the total toe in spec as best as you can. Remember, toe causes the MOST wear out of the three angles.

Edited September 3, 2014 by 2thosd2

[TobyB]

 

 

The new suspension just transfers far more pressure to the tires.

hee hee hee- what, made the car weigh more?

 

(in good fun)

 

t

[ray_]

hee hee hee- what, made the car weigh more?

 

(in good fun)

 

t

 

You can counter that, though. Just use helium instead of air in the tires.

 

['76mintgrün'02]

Sure, helium, or put a little grease on the tread, that should stop the squealing.

 

I just rotated my tires front to back after ten k miles (post DIY toe adjustment) and the tread had worn very evenly.

 

The alignment shop (Les Schwab) was not willing to work with me beyond putting it "within spec".  I don't blame them, but I did not feel like I got a lot for $80.  I did get castor, camber and toe in for each of the wheels, but I have yet to swap in my refreshed rear sub frame, so those numbers only have so much 'value'.  It did tell me that the car was not horribly bent, but I did notice a  bent trailing arm, long after the alignment.  This could have had something to do with the pulling.  Since the only adjustment is toe in, that is what I did.  

 

The car no longer pulls (no matter which side of the road I am on).  The mossy statement was just silly, though my favorite local roads do have some shady damp corners.

 

When I adjusted toe on old VWs, I ran a string down the center as well.  I made sure the toe in was set with the string centered.  One of my  cars took a lot of twisting to bring it in.  On the 02, I figured the shop had it close, so I just tweaked it until it felt right.  They sell 'kits' for alignment, but those aluminum pieces of bent plate that sit on the floor outside of the wheels seem like they would hit the bulge in the tire, rather than the flatter side wall.  That's why I like the sticks attached to each wheel, a little higher up.  There is not much height to work with though.  I have seen another 'kit' that attaches to the bumpers and runs a string down the outsides to measure off of.  Seems easy enough to copy and I almost did, but got lazy.

 

One other 'trick' is to park the front wheels on plastic grocery bags.  Just lay them flat, so there are two layers of slippery plastic under each wheel.  This keeps you from fighting the tread grip while making adjustments.

 

hth