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tii experts help needed please - long


adamm

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Hi there, I'm looking for some help with the sudden poor starting of my tii. It's been on the road for about 15 months now after a ground-up restoration where everything was renewed or replaced and I've never struggled to get it started, rain or shine or even when the cold start valve wasn't working! But suddenly I have a really hard time getting her going and this is beginning to be a real problem as I use the car every day.

The symptoms seem peculiar to me - maybe somebody else can suggest otherwise??

To begin with it's sometimes really difficult to get the engine to fire which makes me think 'damp' or at least 'not up to scratch' on the electrical side and often it will fire up and then stall almost immediately. However when it does finally run it will only run on two cylinders then onto three and finally (sometimes as long as 10 minutes later) it will hit all four cylinders and then not miss a beat for the remainder of the journey which makes me think 'kugelfischer'.

A few weeks ago when trying to diagnose I found that one injector wasn't atomising properly and replaced it and for a couple of days there were no issues, but now it's come back so I'm a bit stuck.

I've not recently done any major work (other than regular maintenance) and in the course of this problem have replaced the distributor cap, points and condensor. Leads are relatively new as are the plugs and as the problem 'goes away' after a few minutes running I am not inclined to believe it is either the plugs or leads. Am I right?

I'd be really grateful if somebody could help as I'm beginning to loose faith in her which is a shame as she's been so good for so long.

TIA

adam

'73 tii arancio borealis - finished?!

'74 lux fjord - gone :(

'73 3.0csi polaris

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water in the gas that could be freezing in and around the injectors and in the K-fish pump, causing the symptoms that you describe.

If ice is forming--and it can when it's damp and when the temperature is at freezing or even above (venturi effect)--remember carburetor icing--it takes the engine warming up enough to melt the ice around the injectors for them to perform properly. You might even have ice crystals in the pump itself.

Try some dry gas (alcohol) to get rid of the water and see if that helps...

mike

'69 Nevada sunroof-Wolfgang-bought new
'73 Sahara sunroof-Ludwig-since '78
'91 Brillantrot 318is sunroof-Georg Friederich 
Fiat Topolini (Benito & Luigi), Renault 4CVs (Anatole, Lucky Pierre, Brigette) & Kermit, the Bugeye Sprite

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Hi Mike, thanks for your response.

It's been freezing a few times lately but it wasn't when the symptons first appeared.

Could you tell me what dry gas is, where I'd get it from and how I would use it - I'm intrigued and willing to give anything a go!

'73 tii arancio borealis - finished?!

'74 lux fjord - gone :(

'73 3.0csi polaris

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Wish I could offer some help on this, but I experiance some what of the same experiance with mine for the first 5 to 8 seconds after a cold start.

Sense it has gotten colder here it seems to have gotten worse, so I think it is related to a careful balance of the warm up valve.

Good luck with it.......

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Sorry Adam..... I can't provide any help. I'm having similar issues with my 74tii so I'll be lurking hoping someone gives some good suggestions. No chance of icing as my problem started before it was too cold. In my case cylinders 3 and 4 don't seem to ever fire (warm or cold).

I wish you luck!!! I miss my cool daily driver as well....

Patiently lurking,

Patman

Hi there, I'm looking for some help with the sudden poor starting of my tii. It's been on the road for about 15 months now after a ground-up restoration where everything was renewed or replaced and I've never struggled to get it started, rain or shine or even when the cold start valve wasn't working! But suddenly I have a really hard time getting her going and this is beginning to be a real problem as I use the car every day.

The symptoms seem peculiar to me - maybe somebody else can suggest otherwise??

To begin with it's sometimes really difficult to get the engine to fire which makes me think 'damp' or at least 'not up to scratch' on the electrical side and often it will fire up and then stall almost immediately. However when it does finally run it will only run on two cylinders then onto three and finally (sometimes as long as 10 minutes later) it will hit all four cylinders and then not miss a beat for the remainder of the journey which makes me think 'kugelfischer'.

A few weeks ago when trying to diagnose I found that one injector wasn't atomising properly and replaced it and for a couple of days there were no issues, but now it's come back so I'm a bit stuck.

I've not recently done any major work (other than regular maintenance) and in the course of this problem have replaced the distributor cap, points and condensor. Leads are relatively new as are the plugs and as the problem 'goes away' after a few minutes running I am not inclined to believe it is either the plugs or leads. Am I right?

I'd be really grateful if somebody could help as I'm beginning to loose faith in her which is a shame as she's been so good for so long.

TIA

adam

74 2002tii known as "The Pickle"

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alcohol (not the drinking kind) that you add to gasoline when you have moisture (water) in your gas tank. The water tends to sink to the bottom of your gas tank (heavier than gasoline) where the fuel pickup is...adding alcohol allows the water to mix with the alcohol and keeps it from freezing and/or causing driveability problems when the water is sucked into the engine vs gasoline.

You should be able to get it at auto parts stores there in England; just don't know what you call it there.

Remember that icing conditions in your intake tract can occur with air temps as high as 40 or so degrees Fahrenheit due to the cooling effect of a venturi. This was a big problem with aircraft in WWI until they figured out how to heat the carburetors.

cheers

mike

'69 Nevada sunroof-Wolfgang-bought new
'73 Sahara sunroof-Ludwig-since '78
'91 Brillantrot 318is sunroof-Georg Friederich 
Fiat Topolini (Benito & Luigi), Renault 4CVs (Anatole, Lucky Pierre, Brigette) & Kermit, the Bugeye Sprite

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Hi Adam,

So many things it can be but it sounds like you are on a good start with the recommendations provided already.

My thoughts are to continue with the electrical tuneup. I would remove and clean ALL grounds to the system (2 or three in the engine bay alone). I would clean and recrimp (a light squeeze with pliars) all electrical connections around the distributor.

Also, you mentioned that everything worked well when you cleaned the one injector - check the remaining and also look to see if you didn't inadvertently bump a connection that made it happy again.

Check the fuses too.

Hows the fuel filters?

How are the plugs after you try to start it, I take it they are wet with gas? I wonder if the cold start is causing a problem.

Once it's running, and you say it's running on 2 or 3 cylinders, this happened to me too. I firmly believe in running Techron (not sure if you have it there) through the system and really run the car hard for a few days - the Italian tune-up really can do wonders. On my car I swear it was a stuck valve that was causing the lopsided running - after a few minutes of horrible drivability, something would click into place and WOOOOSH I would have what felt like a turbo comparitively.

Sorry, nothing concrete to go with, but I feel strongly about checking connections and making sure it's all in place.

1973 2002tii (2764167), Baikal, sunroof, A/C, 5spd OD, 3.91 LSD, etc. Rebuild blog here!

In the past: Verona H&B 1973 2002tii (2762913); Malaga 1975 2002; White 1975 2002

--> Blog: Repro tii cold start relay;   --> If you need an Alpina A4 tuning manual, PM me!

 

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it started, rain or shine or even when the cold start valve wasn't working! But suddenly I have a really hard time getting her going and this is beginning to be a real problem as I use the car every day.

To begin with it's sometimes really difficult to get the engine to fire which makes me think 'damp' or at least 'not up to scratch' on the electrical side and often it will fire up and then stall almost immediately.adam

Now that it has gotten colder, you should verify that that CSV is working/not working. it injects fuel for a longer period of time as it gets colder. Mike McCarthy's books covers this in detail. I had a connnection issue with my timer box (being loose) that a fixed.

However when it does finally run it will only run on two cylinders then onto three and finally (sometimes as long as 10 minutes later) it will hit all four cylinders and then not miss a beat for the remainder of the journey which makes me think 'kugelfischer'.adam

Personally, I would just drain/replace your tank to eliminate this as a possible source. You may also want to check the fuel pick up screen and see what gunk or funk may be in you tank. Refer to this for guidence.

I would also check the warm up regulator. McCarthy's book also covers this in detail.

..have replaced the distributor cap, points and condensor. adam

you replaced the fuel filter by the radiator support, using the correct filter?

Good luck and report back.

Colin K.

Malaga '72 tii

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Have you checked the cold start valve for proper operation? The manuals show how to test this, but don't show the tiny screen that is pressed into the plastic inlet stub of the cold start valve.

If the fuel isn't being squirted into the throttle body, then the car won't run (well) when cold.

post-8235-13667598765175_thumb.jpg

Jim Gerock

 

Riviera 69 2002 built 5/30/69 "Oscar"

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Sounds a cold start injection timing problem. My cold start is on a switch and if I cut it off too soon does the same thing

Even in far South Texas

Cheers

delk

autobahn burner 75-78

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Good suggestions so far I think. I'm leaning toward the cold start enrichment circuit.

Also, what plugs are u running?

GL,

Ray

Ray

Stop reading this! Don't you have anything better to do?? :P
Two running things. Two broken things.

 

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I say post some pics of the plugs so we can see how the mixture is. To me it seems it could be fouled plugs. But in that case it seems that after you get all 4 going the should be clean. I'd check everything in the ignition system again first as it is more likely to have a problem than the k-pump.

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Blimey! What a lot of responses!

Thank you to all who have contributed - you've certainly given me some food for thought - and I'm encouraged that nobody thinks it's terminal!!

I will slowly go through the list and make sure (for those suffering the same) that I report back with my findings.

Many thanks for now

adam

'73 tii arancio borealis - finished?!

'74 lux fjord - gone :(

'73 3.0csi polaris

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