1971 02’ timing/ignition issue question

[John76]

If your ignition is the PerTronix Ignitor II, then no resistor is needed.

Connect as follows:

You can ignore the yellow resistor wire and the green wire from fuse #12, and your external resistor and relay.

 

[Rich S]

13 minutes ago, John76 said:

If your ignition is the PerTronix Ignitor II, then no resistor is needed.

Connect as follows:

You can ignore the yellow resistor wire and the green wire from fuse #12, and your external resistor and relay.

 

10-4 thanks. Mine is a six fuse system would that change anything?

[jimk]

1 hour ago, MurphinDC said:

No need for the resistor if you're using a Pertronix type of electronic ignition.  Just leave it in place and tie the two wires together

 

Murph

Or jumper the relay terminals 30 to 87.

[Hans]

Per Toby, do proper , solid connection on that red wire. Any other connections like that?

Are you sure rotor tip was set at tdc firing stroke? Is main coil wire seated?

[John76]

10 hours ago, Rich S said:

Mine is a six fuse system would that change anything?

One Green wire from your ignition switch (#15) goes directly to the coil +. You can bypass/remove the external resistor and relay.

Another Green wire from the ign. switch provides switched +12V to fuse #5 on a 6-fuse car.

 

You should have one green wire from the ignition switch providing +12V to the coil (+) terminal when the ignition is "on".

The red wire in your picture is likely from the PerTronix module and is also connected to the coil (+) terminal for +12V power.

The coil (-) terminal should have a black wire connected from the PerTronix unit and continue to the tach on the instrument pod.

Study my diagram (above) and make sure you don't have +12V connected to the coil (-). 

It's hard to identify where your wires are connected in your pictures.

Hope this helps,

John

[Rich S]

First off thank you all for the replies. I may be going full hard ‘R’ on this one. Still have zero spark as compared to a sh@! spark a few days ago. Please see attached drawing now that I’ve got everything cleaned up. First question is could the relay be trash? Second is can I run a ground directly to the coil from frame? Reason being still reading 1.5v at (-) neg connection at coil when ignition switch is in on position. (+) positive side of coil is reading 11.5v when ignition is in on position. 

[Mark92131]

Those relay connections don't match the wiring diagram I have for cars using the ballast resistor.  #30 gets switched power directly from the fuse box (not the starter) and connects to the positive side of the coil through the ballast resistor.  If you are removing the ballast resistor, you need to still connect #30 to the "+" side of the coil.  #87 only connects to the "+" side of the coil, not to switched power from the ignition.

 

Mark92131

 

 

[John76]

1 hour ago, Rich S said:

First question is could the relay be trash? Second is can I run a ground directly to the coil from frame?

First: The relay in your drawing is not connected correctly! Because you have an electronic ignition module (please confirm with a picture of the dizzy sans the cap and rotor) you can/should remove the relay and external coil ... unless you have a condenser and point set as a backup in case of PerTronix failure while on the road.

Second:  Absolutely NOT. The coil is ONLY grounded by the black wire through the PerTronix module to the distributor ground.

Disconnect the wires from the Coil (-) and then measure the voltage with the ignition "on".

The starter solenoid can have 2 or more connections. Please identify what you have.

The giant terminal is the huge wire directly to the battery +

The #50 terminal is a medium size black wire connected to the ignition switch #50, and usually has a connection "tap" for the wire to the external resistor relay terminal #86.

You might (if not the original starter) also have a solenoid terminal #15. This is used on the later cars that have a built-in resistor wire between the ignition #15 terminal and the coil (+). The solenoid #15 has a wire (usually black/red) also connected to the coil (+).

This provides a momentary (only during cranking) +12V directly to the coil, bypassing the built-in resistor wire. 

 

The black wires in your drawing are correct: Coil (-) to distributor (black PerTronix wire) and then to the tach.

Ditch the relay and the 2 wires to the starter.

Connect the green wire from the ignition switch #15 to the coil (+) along with the red PerTronix wire.

 

Test: Remove all wires from coil (-).  Reason: The PerTronix module could be grounding and consuming current during the dwell time between cylinders. Also the tach is grounding in synch with the coil /distributor ground.

Then measure voltage at the coil (+) with the ignition "on". Should read close to battery voltage (+12V).

Reattach black wires to the coil (-) and go for a drive!

 

Sheeesh...hope your problem is this simple.

 

Fingers crossed,

John

 

 

 

 

[TobyB]

Quote

If your ignition is the PerTronix Ignitor II, then no resistor is needed.*

*UNLESS the coil you use meters less than 3 ohms, in which case it should have a resistor that brings

the total resistance up to 3 ohms.

 

Says he who has let the smoke out...

 

And to reinforce what John wrote: 

Kettering ignition in a 2002 switches the negative coil post, pulling it to ground

to "charge" the coil, and opening it to "fire" the coil.  So the negative terminal should alternate between 12v

and 0(ish) volts as you roll the engine over, with a spark every time the voltage hops up to 12v**

 

**it actually jumps much higher, so don't you be-a touchin' it when you'sa doin' this...

 

t

 

['76mintgrün'02]

6 minutes ago, TobyB said:

*UNLESS the coil you use meters less than 3 ohms, in which case it should have a resistor that brings

the total resistance up to 3 ohms.

 

Not with the Ignitor Twoo.  That one only needs .6 ohms.  

 

His coil marked "no resistor needed" probably has around 3 ohms built in (like the bosch caribe coils).

The ballast resistor should be bypassed and a 'hotter' coil could be used.

 

The original ignitor requires 3 ohms though.

 

http://www.pertronix.com.au/assets/pdf/Pertronix_Ignitor_2_Installation_Instructions.pdf

[TobyB]

oh, yeah, 

I'm pretty much old stuff out here.

 

oops.

 

t

 

['76mintgrün'02]

Old stuff?

I'm still enjoying points/condensers over here.

I think I might be a luddite.

Tom

[jimk]

12 hours ago, TobyB said:

So the negative terminal should alternate between 12v

and 0(ish) volts as you roll the engine over, with a spark every time the voltage hops up to 12v**

I roll the engine so the points are closed, turn on the ignition and flick the points open with one hand.  Grab your butt with the other so you don't get zapped when the coil fires.

[Rich S]

Update. Went back to old school points and well, it started up. Now have a vacuum leak caused by airflow through cylinder 1 intake. Diagnosed using carb cleaner when idle went up when sprayed. It’s causing a total dead cylinder hopefully with some rtv it’ll fix it and fire otherwise looks like I’ll be looking deeper….thank you all for the insight it truly helped diagnosed this issue.